Weekend from hell, Help!! [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

DrBob

09-06-2004, 10:00 AM

This was a terrible weekend for me. I'm negative on almost all my premium hands: AKs(3 hands), AKo(7 hands), AQs(3 hands), AQo(3 hands), KK(4 hands), KQs(1 hand), QQ(3 hands). I'm ahead only for AA, AJs, and JJ. Part of it is bad luck, and part definitely bad play, but I've been seeing an enormous proliferation of people just calling preflop with AK, AQs and the like, making judging where I am in a hand hellish.

Would you play this differently? This was generally an extremely passive table. Was the turn call an error? I'm also interested in the flop bet. With the pot odds here a bet won't protect much. So my question is if this is a decent value bet. Also, this table rarely reraised, So if I should call a bet, there's little downside to betting myself. But should I call a bet if I check, with a 2-outer when someone holds an ace?

Paradise Poker 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG+1 raises, Hero folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, SB folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 23.50 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has 9d 9c (three of a kind, nines).
UTG+1 has Ks Qs (flush, king high).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 23.50 BB. 

This hand was against the same opponent who held KQs on the previous hand. What do you think of my calling it down? I was thinking he could well hold AK or AQ, but maybe the pot odds didn't justify staying just in case this was his holding. This issue of calling down has become a problem for me. On the one hand, I hate to make a fold that loses the whole pot, and I hate to be a conspicuous folder 1v1. On the other hand, these passive opponents sucker me into playing second best hands way too often, and I seem to be clueless.

Paradise Poker 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, CO folds, SB folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Qs Kh (two pair, kings and queens).
BB has Js Td (straight, ace high).
Outcome: BB wins 9 BB. 

This hand is off-theme, but was really frustrating and confusing. Look at how dealer and UTG+1 played their hands!! I'm real dubious about my play, especially staying in on the turn/river, but maybe starting with my flop cap.

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (18.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (6 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls, Button calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 3-bets, Hero caps, MP2 calls, Button calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (21.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (6 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, Button bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP2 folds.

River: (25.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 28.25 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 has 2s Js (three of a kind, twos).
Hero has Qc Ac (two pair, queens and twos).
Button has Jd Jc (two pair, jacks and twos).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 28.25 BB.

Festus22

09-06-2004, 10:10 AM

Hand 1 - Looks fine. You were in the hand when ahead and out when behind.

Hand 2 - Raise preflop. I'd cap the flop and call down from there if he leads into me. I'd have lost more than you did.

Hand 3 - When an unsophisticated player goes 3 bets on a paired flop, I usually give them credit for trips and call down at that point. Your flop cap then turn check when a blank hits is puzzling.

btspider

09-06-2004, 10:26 AM

hand 1: fold the turn, you don't have the odds to continue, especially without the King of flush.

hand 2: raise PF, cap the flop. don't even think about folding this.

hand 3: inconsistent play on the turn blank, especially since UTG+2 checked to you. looks like he was pumping a flush draw with that river fold. the penny stakes are tough to figure out when so many cold-call PF and may still have a deuce. although you got enough bets in, you played a bit scared. bet the turn.

afk

09-06-2004, 11:44 AM

Hand one you can fold the turn. You bet the flop and got 4 callers, then you got bet into on the turn. I don't think it's a horrible place to fold.

Hand two. Raise preflop and cap the flop. I'll slow down if the opponent keeps betting into me.

Hand three. If you cap the flop, genereally lead the turn. The way you played it, I'd call down too.

ThunderAces

09-06-2004, 12:14 PM

Hand 1

Betting the flop is correct pot is big enough where u must protect your hand if its good.
Problems start on the turn. You only have 2 options here, calling isn't one of them. You say the table was very passive, small blind bets into a PFR after he c/c the flop. If SB is passive your beat here most of the time. I would give it up. With that many callers on the flop it would of been tough to continue betting on the turn.

Hand 2

You must raise here preflop no question.
On the flop I would play the same. Reason for not 4 betting is raising him on the turn.
So raise the turn if he 3 bets you, you got odds to catch a K or Q. Seems to me also if he three bets you on the turn you can lay down hand on the river without improvement esp if he is passive. But even passive players 3 bet the turn here with the nuts.

Hand 3

Capping the flop is prob a mistake. Noone is folding (prob) at this point I would try to raise the turn and again. Due to the passive play I would prob lose another bet on the river. When I'm in passive games like this and can't get much info from my raises I find another game /images/graemlins/smile.gif