#$@#%@#$ Jacks!

[balkii]

party 5/10 6max

do you guys usually cap with JJ in this game? seems to me since everyone raising standards are loosened up you should?

hand 1:

4 handed. I open UTG with Jd Jd TAG 3bets on the button, I cap.

flop Ad Ks 4s

I bet he raises, I call (??!?!?)

turn 6s

check check

river Kc

check check


hand 2:
6 handed, unknown UTG+1 raises, loosey coldcalls, unknown 3bets on button, I cap (?!?!) in SB with Jd Jc, BB folds, all call.

flop Kc Ac 3h

I bet (!?!?!), UTG+1 raises, all fold to me, I call (?!?!)

turn As

I check and fold.


Comments on all streets greatly appreciated.

[spydog]

If the pot is 3-way or more on the flop, I'm normally check-folding if both AK are showing. HU I might be inclined to use a read and continue.

Hand 1: Bet the flop and fold to a raise. What hands can you beat that a TAG 3-bet preflop? Not many.

Hand 2: You have a 3-flush and the pot is pretty large. I call this one down. I like a call-down even more when the 2nd A hits.

[balkii]

I agree with bet-folding the flop in hand 1.

on hand 2, I dont understand how I can call this down. I definitely call the flop because I have a few backdoor outs and the pot is huge but the guy raised AKx flop bet of the PF capper with players (including a PF 3-bettor) behind him. I dont see how I cant take this hand past the turn....

[joker122]

Hand 1:

[ QUOTE ]
TAG 3bets on the button

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have a fold on the flop here.

edit - i didn't notice the backdoor draws in hand 2...i suppose you can peel one there.

Hand 2:

You capped pre and he still raised your flop bet on an AK flop - another easy fold IMO.

And yeah, I cap JJ in this game.

[NLSoldier]

I agree with the cap preflop in both hands. In hand one i think i would bet the flop and fold to the raise. Hand two id check the flop and see what the action is when it gets back to you, folding if it is bet and raised, and probably calling if its just one bet. The reason i dont mind this more passive approach in this situation is that if you are up against a decent opponent he me take your check call to mean you have a monster that you are looking to CR on the turn, considering you capped PF and the flop has an A and K, if thats the case you may get to see the turn and river for just the one bet on the flop.

[Rostioff]

I largely disagree with the consensus that it is correct to cap with JJ in shorthanded play. I do think you should three bet a lone raiser if there are no callers yet, but overplaying middle pocket pairs in shorthanded play can be very costly. In hand one, against a tight aggressive player, there is no value in capping it preflop. If he's three betting you, he likely at minimum has two overcards on you. If a favorable flop comes you can check raise the flop to find where you are at. As the hand played out, since you capped it I would bet and fold to a raise on the flop.

Regarding the second hand, you should have folded preflop. With a guaranteed three opponents, any overcard is death to your hand and you might already be behind to an overpair, given the raise and reraise. Basically you are entering a pot not knowing where you are at and holding a very vulnerable hand. Additionally, you act first on every round. JJ in this situation has a negative EV. Don't get married to your middle pocket pairs in shorthanded play. Good luck with JJ in the future, it's a profitable hand most of the time, you just have to know when to lay it down.

[NLSoldier]

Youve got to be kidding me! Folding JJ PF in this game would be retarded. There is a very good chance you have the best hand preflop and with the additional chance of flopping a set in a huge pot, go ahead and cap it! Sure you will lose some times when overcards hit, but wait to lay it down until they actually hit, instead of assuming they are coming. Many times you will win a decent pot when no overcards hit and the times flop is something like AJx or KJx, you will win a monster.

[balkii]

In hand one, against a tight aggressive player, there is no value in capping it preflop. If he's three betting you, he likely at minimum has two overcards on you.

Maybe you didnt notice that the game was 4-handed. I would expect to be 3-bet by a TAG player with a wide variety of hands, many of which I am dominating.

Regarding the second hand, you should have folded preflop.

To quote another poster (I forgot who): This is the summit of the weak-tight mountain. The only question is whether to call or raise here, folding is NOT an option.

[spydog]

[ QUOTE ]
on hand 2, I dont understand how I can call this down. I definitely call the flop because I have a few backdoor outs and the pot is huge but the guy raised AKx flop bet of the PF capper with players (including a PF 3-bettor) behind him. I dont see how I cant take this hand past the turn....

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a tough time folding HU with a big pot. With 13 BB it's hard for me to lay this one down. Maybe lead the turn and fold to a raise? He could fold QQ or Kx here. If he raises you know you are beat. He could have a flush draw also.

[Peter_rus]

I'm seriously think that even TT,AKo,AQs deserve cap in these games until 3-bettors are very weak PF.

AQo,99,AJs,KQs must be capped on button if 3-betted from blind by agressive or even by decent player who spot that you try to steal more than 25-26% of time (which is nearly correct i guess).

[kiddo]

One of the reasons to 4bet JJ (or any hand) preflop is that if flop comes like AK and you bet and are raised and have a lower pair you can normally sagfely fold.

If you raise and only call 3bet preflop he often will try to make you fold when flop is scary like this, hoping you didnt have that A or K.

Also, by capping preflop with JJ you will sometimes get a hand like KJs fold on a AK board. At least if he thinks you play tight.