Taking SB after Button

In the game I play in if you miss your small blind you can post it and have it be "live" (act as part of your bet) from cuttoff when the button goes by. A player in my game missed his SB and then did this post. Another player at the table who is a decent player said that the player had made a great move by missing his SB and being able to play live with position. I asked him why he never did it if he thought it was such a good move and he said that he doesn't play those angles, or something along those lines.


anyway, in my opinion it is clearly wrong. You miss two hands (including your button), can the live post make up for this forgone EV? if you play 40 hands an hour, and make 1BB/hr, then you make .025BB's/hand (i know you make more with your hands with position but i think the SB and Button average out). So that's .05BB's/round or .2BBs/hour. How much do you gain by having the post in the cuttoff? Is consistantly making this move:

A) very wrong

B) a little wrong

C) doesn't matter

D) a little correct

E) very correct


rob

Against players who are quick to fold their blinds it is probably correct since it would now be profitable to raise if first in no matter what your hand. Against loose defenders it probably isa negative expectation play.

To Malmuth's post I would add it probably makes sense if your RHOs are aggressive which penalizes your blinds even more than normal.


But lets look at it from another angle. The EV of blinds isn't all that bad since you get to see lots of flops. I would say you lose between 2/3 and 1/2 their value; lets say 2/3; lets say the SB is half the BB; lets say you lose only 1/3 of your late position blind value; lets say there are 10 players. If you skip your blind you see 8 hands/orbit.


So the blinds normally give up 2/3 of 1.5sb or 1sb to the other 8 players, or when you get to be in those other 8 seats the value to you is 1sb.


If you skip you sb you get only 6/8ths of that or .75sb for your non-blind hands in an orbit (actually a little worse since you don't get your button). You still lose 2/3 or 4/6 of your BB and lose 1/3 of a 1/2sb or 1/6sb for a total of a loss of 5/6sb or .833sb per orbit. Since this is MORE than your .75sb gain it sounds like a losing proposition.


Your immediate neighbors seem to gain since they get to post their blinds when other people are also posting (to make up for the sb you skipped), get to post when there are less players at the table, or get late position while there are multiple blinds. The players across the table from you seem to lose.


Its rude and should be disallowed.


All-in-all I think I like Malmuth's post better than mine. Go figure.


- Louie

Not saying much, but:


If Esb is EV in small blind,


Ebt is EV on button,


Eco is EV in cutoff, and


Ecop is EV in cutoff, when you post a live blind,


then this `angle' is profitable if Ecop is greater than


Esb+Ebt+Eco.


I have no idea how to figure these numbers (the previous posters already had suggestions) but it is an interesting question. As Louie said, the other players are splitting the blinds according to position. It would be interesting to know how much each position is `worth'.


In any case, intentional blind-skipping should be disgouraged. Whether or not this `angle' is profitable, some people might think it is, and that's enough to encourage the practice. So the rule should be that a missed small blind should be posted dead (which it usually is anyway).


Dirk(MildManneredMathMan)