CardPlayer Forums Launched

[Dan Mezick]

As of Saturday afternoon 9/4 it appears CardPlayer is making a bid to compete with 2+2 and others in the business of growing poker community forums.

They have a 'Women' section which I thought was pretty interesting, other than that it seems like a 2+2 clone. There are scant posts up there right now, it apparently launched today without fanfare or PR-- that I could see.

2+2 is by far the best poker forum worldwide IMO.

Cardplayer's bid for critical mass and quality will be interesting to observe as it unfolds. There is little doubt 2+2ers have a very high loyalty quotient.

[ChristinaB]

Free T-shirt? (http://forums.cardplayer.com/viewtopic.php?t=56)

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Dan:

Thanks for letting us know about this.

Just to set the record straight, and so everyone knows exactly where I stand on this, Two Plus Two Publishing LLC severed all relationships we had with Card Player.

For those who want to do a search, there were previous posts on these forums. See below.

Two Plus Two Thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=gossip&Number=680797&F orum=All_Forums&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main= 680797&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=10391&datera nge=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=& bodyprev=#Post680797)

Best wishes,
Mason

[Dan Mezick]

Tee shirt, yes. Hey that going to attract some quality posts, no?

As I look at the CardPlayer forum, I see a huge effort in front of them.

Certainly they have the magazine. Fine.

The way this (2+2) forum is run, it's very decentralized and peer to peer. Some centralized banning occurs etc but for the most part it's got a vibrant ecosystem of (loyal active knowledgeable) posters that is largely self-governing in a purely P2P internet kind of way.

The posters here seem loyal and make some truly astonishing, high-quality posts. It could be the good books of 2+2 that attracts these high-quality posters but somehow I doubt that. I think it has more to do with the way things are governed which in turn keeps and attracts more loyalty and quality.

HMOs and poker community forums have this characteristic in common: for every healthy member I gain, that is one healthy member I deny my competition.

The post quality is incredible here relative to comparables. I do not think the advent of 'yet another message board' is going to change that anytime soon-- regardless of where it's from.

[tyfromm]

There are dozens and dozens of poker forums. None compare to 2+2.

Having a quality forum and mediocre articles in the related magazine is incompatible. Their forum is destined to be mediocre. Too bad, I don't wish them ill, but it doesn't look promising.

[Dan Mezick]

A great example of what makes this board great is the recent 'stranger' post about a site called 'PokerNoob'.

[ QUOTE ]
I found a great poker site called http://pokernoob.com . They have forums articles and a lot of stuff 2+2 doesn't have. The admins are active there. You guys should come. pokernoob.com !
- Will Macentire


[/ QUOTE ]

The 2+2 forums in a real sense are the upper-end of the worldwide poker community. For me 2+2 is about the quality. Posts like this therefore pose no threat and are not viewed as such by 'management' here.

2+2 is the leader ... in a very P2P, merit-driven kind of way. This forum is in a real sense the leading poker publication precisely because it's governed in a way that promotes the best thinking at all times from the most participants. The 2+2 forums are actually an outstanding example of what the internet is good for.

"True leadership cannot be awarded, appointed or assigned. It comes only from influence and that can't be mandated." - Maxwell

[Dan Mezick]

I'm sure David Sklansky could express this better, but I'll try.

The edge 2+2 has in the community space is in part proportional to the square of the years of successful operation.

This likely stems from a combination of a)depth of understanding of the intricate dynamics of community by management over time, and b)some kind of linear relation between years of operation and overall membership quality.

Whatever the secret formula actually is, 2+2's got it.

[dogmeat]

Dear Mason,

I missed the thread on Barry - because I didn't care enough to read about him. The reason for my feeling is unimportant, but after reading about his comments my opinion of him is reinforced.

I have enjoyed your comments in threads, and especially enjoyed your book reviews. Thanks.

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Dan:

You wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
The posters here seem loyal and make some truly astonishing, high-quality posts. It could be the good books of 2+2 that attracts these high-quality posters but somehow I doubt that. I think it has more to do with the way things are governed which in turn keeps and attracts more loyalty and quality.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's all these things. But whatever the reasons are, the quality of these forums and the vigor of the debate is truly amazing. There's no question that those of you who participate regularly here will improve the level of their games, and this goes for David, Ray, and myself, as well as the rest of the Two Plus Two family.

Thanks for the suppoort.

Best wishes,
Mason

[bisonbison]

I guess it should come as no surprise that the 2+2 forums are the best source of info on limit hold'em on the web, but I have to say that I'm continually impressed with the ability of the entire community to grow and police itself under a pretty wide-open moderation system.

There's an esprit de corps here that may turn off some potential members, but which really seems to have kept the quality of discussion higher than at any other poker forums I've seen.

Since Mason is clearly reading this thread, I'll just say my long overdue thank you right here.

[Ray Zee]

they should be able to pick up new players more easily than 2+2. their content will be like their magazine. so i assume it will help us as their new found posters will make their way over here as they learn the game. then we can correct their misconceptions.
same with rpg. it has helped us as those players all at some time or other find us. the ones that want to talk real poker or about fishing come and stay. the others vist.

thanks to all

zee

[El Dukie]

Do they have a forum section titled, "Why Allyn Jaffrey Shulman Can't Write?" /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Do they have a forum section titled, "Why Allyn Jaffrey Shulman Can't Write?" /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, its right nex to the gallery of photos of her that make her look like a cheap cocktail waitress.

[Mano]

http://forums.cardplayer.com/viewtopic.php?t=110

http://forums.cardplayer.com/viewtopic.php?t=43


I think I'll stick to 2+2 /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[jdl22]

The first thread is just bad. The second is simply a "what the hell do I do to beat these unbeatable fish that keep sucking out on me" type deal that you see here fairly often.

Just to sum up the first thread:
topic - least favorite hands
8 posts in the thread with these hands given:
AA once
AK twice
99 and smaller pairs once
22 specifically once
KK twice
T3 once
small suited connectors once
AT, KT once

These last few make some sense, but what hands do you like if your least favorite hand is AA, KK, or AK?

[Mano]

The second is simply a "what the hell do I do to beat these unbeatable fish that keep sucking out on me" type deal that you see here fairly often.

The guy bitching that he can't beat the small stakes games isn't whats bad, it's all the replys that say the answer is to move up in stakes.

[onegymrat]

Although you intentions seem pure, your annoucement about CardPlayer may have alerted those who would have never known about it, and now 2+2 may lose visits from them.

[RiverMel]

that was some good dope ay?

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do they have a forum section titled, "Why Allyn Jaffrey Shulman Can't Write?" /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, its right nex to the gallery of photos of her that make her look like a cheap cocktail waitress.

[/ QUOTE ]

Check out the "Number of times you've folded KK in your life" board at Cardplayer. Guess who moderates it?

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
A great example of what makes this board great is the recent 'stranger' post about a site called 'PokerNoob'.

[ QUOTE ]
I found a great poker site called http://pokernoob.com . They have forums articles and a lot of stuff 2+2 doesn't have. The admins are active there. You guys should come. pokernoob.com !
- Will Macentire


[/ QUOTE ]

The 2+2 forums in a real sense are the upper-end of the worldwide poker community. For me 2+2 is about the quality. Posts like this therefore pose no threat and are not viewed as such by 'management' here.

2+2 is the leader ... in a very P2P, merit-driven kind of way. This forum is in a real sense the leading poker publication precisely because it's governed in a way that promotes the best thinking at all times from the most participants. The 2+2 forums are actually an outstanding example of what the internet is good for.

"True leadership cannot be awarded, appointed or assigned. It comes only from influence and that can't be mandated." - Maxwell

[/ QUOTE ]

2+2 are in lack for a better word the most 'scientific' poker forum anywhere. Any concept can and will be challenged by people that have knowledge and experience. Thus flawed thinking will not stand unopposed. And on the other side of the same coin, the veteran posters can not rely on authority alone but have to show their capabilities by posting stuff that makes sense.

Poker is one of these fields where dogma will not help anyone. Making an argument that is logical does.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Freudian:

I want to add a little more to what you state. It just happens to be that those of us involved with Two Plus Two are also players, and it has always been to our advantage to try to improve our games. The better we understand poker/gambling, the better Two Plus Two will be in general.

Thus we have always welcomed competition even though I'm often accused of the opposite. We have no objection to competing with others, and it has always been our policy to lead our readers to any material that we feel is good whether we publish it or not.

Most important, we encourage vigorous debate on these forums and feel that everyone benefits from this process. And for those sites that offer things which we don't, that's more than fine. We stick with only what we do well.

Best wishes,
Mason

[RiverTheNuts]

I disagree, I went and checked out their site, and this place looks like the friggin garden of eden compared to there... makes me feel good that I found 2+2, and appreciative that there are so many good posters... Im staying here, didnt even bother to register

[Lawrence Ng]

OMG those two links to cardplayer had me literally laughing out of my chair..

well..ok I once thought KJ was better than JJ too..NOT!!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Lafortezza]

[ QUOTE ]
well..ok I once thought KJ was better than JJ too..NOT!!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]But KJ has an overcard on the JJ, if a King comes it wins. Its, like, 60%-40% to KJ or something... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[chio]

it seems like they just copied the exact format of 2+2 forums, i'm talking every aspect

i doubt the forums will succeed, i browsed through them and havent seen one substantial post yet

some examples of people who want to play well but probably don't:

one guy's signature with every post is "When you fold the eventual winning hand, don't think every had you fold will win."

another post with helpful advice:
"There are different reasons to do a lot of different thigns in a situation like that, all of them good. There are even different conflicting reasons for doing the same thing, each one right. It is impossible to answer that question, as it is so contextually dependent."

haha.

[chio]

i'm sorry, but this forum is just ridiculous

a question in the psychology forum
"What are some ways to sense weakness in online poker? Betting patterns or the time it takes your opponent to make his/her bet? It seems to vary. Some players bet small when weak while others bet small in an attempt to get a raise so they can go over the top."

an answer
"i usually sense weakness when someone bets and then checks...however it could be a check raise

when people either bet quickly or try to save money, they are weak...hope it helps"

[mostsmooth]

i stumbled across the forum and read a few threads
geez
every post sounds like it was written by a 14 year old
ill be reading more, just for the humor

[Al_Capone_Junior]

[ QUOTE ]
the ones that want to talk real poker or about fishing come and stay

[/ QUOTE ]

I love it! A place to talk poker and spew forth the occasional fishin' story!

Viva 2+2!

al

[El Barto]

[ QUOTE ]
they should be able to pick up new players more easily than 2+2. their content will be like their magazine. so i assume it will help us as their new found posters will make their way over here as they learn the game. then we can correct their misconceptions.
same with rpg. it has helped us as those players all at some time or other find us. the ones that want to talk real poker or about fishing come and stay. the others vist.

thanks to all

zee


[/ QUOTE ]

Cardplayer reports that their forum had 10,000 posts in 2 weeks. At that rate they will get 250,000 a year. 2+2 is going at a rate of 1,000,000 posts a year.

Cardplayer (with its magazine linkage) has the potential to grow faster than 2+2, but clearly both are growing and will likely be huge forums.

I wonder will we will be in a year.