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09-28-2001, 12:12 PM
When i play poker i always wear the same shirt. no, this isn't a good luck shirt. it is the brightest, craziest shirt i have. the reason i wear it is because i want to look like i'm their to have fun and gamble, and its looks like i'm from out of town, which i am. i think this combined with my age and fair skin create the image of a person who appears to be a complete tourist. To further highlight this i make many plays that atleast half the table will think are poor or marginal plays and in truth i do become embarrased when i show my cards (you know the ones who think they know, but don't quite know, and then demand an explanation which i never give, and i will never question peoples play because they will tighten up - i hate when asshole egotistical players question loose calls which only tightens people up). Anyway, my friends think its quite funny that i try to look like a tourist. sometimes i question the look myself. i figure i'm not going to get too much respect anyway, so i might as well highlight the effect.

however, lately i thinking of some of the possible downsides to looking like a tourist. instead of picking up passive incorrect calls when i bet a solid hand, i might pick up extra raises from someone who wants to isolate me. the people that do this would be the better players (i do this to people who i think are weak) and maybe i'm asking for confrontation. anyway, i wanted to ask the forum what they think about trying to look like a tourist when you are unknown. do you think it creates a better atmosphere at the table or simply attracts too many better players who will try to isolate you. In general i think it has worked well, especially in vegas where the players were like sharks without teeth- that is they assumed they were better than any tourist and ran over to sit next to but were fairly weak as far as i could tell- atleast the regulars that i played with. anyway, let me know what you think about looking like a tourist.

09-28-2001, 12:26 PM
as long as you exploit the image correctly it will work for awhile. the good players are not fools and will soon stop making loose calls against you. in holdem though its best usually to have people folding more often, rather than calling, except before the flop with dead hands. in stud you always would like to see people folding after the first few cards. so maybe inducing loose play could have the wrong effect.

also by drawing attention to yourself the players watch you and may play their best against you.

09-28-2001, 12:35 PM
I think I may be one of the few 2+2 posters who often begins posts "Its about 2 hours into my session and I have a loose maniac image.."


I always say the same thing: it doesn't matter what your image is AS LONG AS YOU PLAY OPPOSITE TO THAT IMAGE. If you have a loose, bad, "tourist" image, you will be attacked more, but by weaker hands. So, as long as you are playing tightly, you will be in good shape against the attackers. If you have a rock image, you must play looser to steal more small pots because you won't be very likely to win any big ones (barring monster vs monster, and you are just as likely to lose that confrontation as your opponent).


For me, a loose and crazy table image (one that is similar to the one you describe) works reasonably well. However, it is a style that by definition will lead you to higher variance; you will be involved in bigger pots as people try to bust you or as several players play against "each other", assuming you are dead money in the pot. If you can handle the swings associated with this style (because you WILL get sucked out on, and not infrequently) and the psychological pressure of having other people targetting you, go for it. Sometimes I feed off having the table "out to get me"; sometimes I don't feel up to handling it and I leave or change how I'm playing that day.


I'd also note that if you dress or play in a very outlandish way, you are more likely to be remembered and no one will think you are a "tourist" if you are there every week. They might think you play bad, certainly, however.


You sound concerned that "the better players" are targetting you. Better players don't concern themselves with what shirt you are wearing, but only what cards you are turning over and how you are playing your hands. They often may over-focus on how you play preflop, and this is something you can certainly take advantage of IF you play well after the flop. If that's the case, what do you care who takes shots at you? I think it was Jack Strauss who said something like "one of the nice things about being a great poker player is that I don't have to know you to know that I can break you". If you think you play well, don't fear the "better players" taking shots at you. Start making them fear that YOU are taking shots at THEM.

09-28-2001, 01:57 PM
When trying to play poker successfully you have to think about what really works as opposed to playing how you would like to play. I once read an article about a guy who kept a plastic banana in his pocket, but as Ray said above, if he chooses to play dead hands he should lose.


There's no question that having a fun lively image is much more fun, and if you could win the exact same amount playing that way as opposed to playing more conventionally that's what you would want to do. But I don't believe it works. You may want to see my book Poker Essays where there is discussion about what image is appropriate for each game.

09-28-2001, 01:57 PM
I think the only ones you're really fooling are the tourists themselves, and they wouldn't have noticed anyway. I guarantee you the color of your shirt will have no impact on my evaluation of your play. You could even try wearing one of those giant cameras around your neck (you know the ones they wear for Tacky Tourist Parties?). That ain't gonna work either. The only way you will convince me you are a bad player is if you start making lots of marginal and bad plays, play too many hands out of position, make -EV draws, etc, in which case...you are a bad player. I always start with the assumption that every player is a little above average. You see, when I watch you play, I will have enough information to fairly accurately assess your skill level in no time at all, quite possibly before I even play my first hand against you. What you are espousing is basically the Caroesque image, and this is one aspect of Mr. Caro's teachings that don't hold a lot of water. I think the best image is a tight aggressive player that never seems to lose and that no one really wants to tangle with. That way your only image play you have to make is to play your very best game all time.

09-28-2001, 02:01 PM
What you are espousing is basically the Caroesque image, and this is one aspect of Mr. Caro's teachings that don't hold a lot of water."


Another point is that the better players tend to play better hands and are not always concerned with you. Part of the reason for this is that with a full table of players it is important to realize that even if you happen to be a nut, there can easily be a good hand or two out there.

09-28-2001, 04:29 PM
Caro's wild image stuff applies best to games with relatively small pots as found in 2 betting round games like Draw and Lowball.


Big pots such as in the big-bet rounds of Holdem and Stud favor getting players to FOLD: there are few hands not worth drawing at 12:1, and those that shouldn't aren't giving up all that much. I therefore suggest an image that is tighter and less imaginative than you really play. Looking like a weak player (not necissarily a loose player) allows you to play circles around the "sharks".


The "best" image is a wild and loose one before and on the flop, but then a tight and predictable one on the turn and river. You can get them to draw slim against you early but then throw it away later. My best wins were when I was able to cultivate that; but its real tough and usually impossible to do. Playing loose and aggressive when on the button helps a lot; many opponents will start calling your early raises with KQo; DOH!!


- Louie

09-28-2001, 08:08 PM
I think of image as an ever shifting thing, on time scales that range from minutes to years. A guy can be extra lose, even on full tilt, then win a couple pots and sit back and muck one hand preflop from the BB, and poof, what to him is a gear shift is perceived, rightly, as an image shift. "Image" and "gear" are nearly synonymous when talking only of bets and cards.


"... I make many plays that at least half the table will think are poor or marginal plays..."


I suspect this is true of most everyone in every game.


Tommy