Rookie Q about draws

[Compit]

When I hear people speak about flush draws and 2-way straight draws I always hear the 30-35% numbers. But that assumes that the player will see two cards, which is rarely the case unless he moves in. In most cases the player is buying cards one at a time, which makes him a 5:1 dog or therebaouts if my understanding is correct.

It would seem then that there is really no time when there are correct pot odds to call a raise in NL with one of these drawing hands, and that only implied odds and semi-bluff considerations make such draws playable. Is this correct? I see pros on TV making these calls and I want to make sure I understand the thinking. Are they only calling if they also sense that the pot can be taken down without a hand?

[RiverTheNuts]

bingo... pot odds to draw in NL are almost non existant... players make it that way on purpose

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
When I hear people speak about flush draws and 2-way straight draws I always hear the 30-35% numbers. But that assumes that the player will see two cards, which is rarely the case unless he moves in. In most cases the player is buying cards one at a time, which makes him a 5:1 dog or therebaouts if my understanding is correct.

It would seem then that there is really no time when there are correct pot odds to call a raise in NL with one of these drawing hands, and that only implied odds and semi-bluff considerations make such draws playable.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you decide whether to call, it is better to consider the probability of improving on the next card. However, this doesn't mean flush draws and straight draws are unplayable in NL.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif The bet you face is not always pot-sized.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif It is not certain that your opponent will bet on the turn. It is rare to have a hand strong enough to warrant betting the pot on the flop and turn. If your opponent does that too much with hands like TPTK and overpairs, you can punish this by slow-playing sets. You may have to fold more draws against players who overplay their hands, but you should more than make up for this when you have a strong made hand.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Implied odds are a constant consideration in NL. Good position is important because it improves your implied odds. If you routinely extract a pot-sized bet from your opponent after making a 5:1 draw, you can call a pot-sized bet now: 5 times you lose 1 pot, and 1 time you net 5 times the current size of the pot. If your opponent is aggressive, and stacks are deep, you might count on getting enough implied odds from less likely draws. (Yesterday, I invested 5 BB to net 180 BB on a gutshot straight draw. A player with a set paid me off with his whole stack. He might have doubled up if the board had paired on the river.) It is impossible to avoid getting bluffed off big pots on the river and at the same time avoid paying off a few draws that hit.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif It is rare that a flush or straight draw is your only way to win. If you have the nut flush draw, you often have an overcard that may be good. You may have draws to 2-pair or trips or straight draws. If you have one extra way to win on the flop, you may be close to even with a better made hand, and two extra ways to win may make you a favorite. These mean you can raise on the flop, decreasing the chance your opponent bets on the turn even if your opponent never folds. The extra ways to win may make it easy for you to call a bet on the turn if it does come.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif In a multi-way hand, you usually get better than 2:1 pot odds. In fact, with a good draw, you can easily be a favorite, winning more than your share of the pot.

[Compit]

Thanks for that reply. Good stuff! I think I see it alot more clearly now.