Nut flush, did I maximize? $50 NL Party 6-Max

[JrJordan]

Main villain in this hand has been, well, interesting. He's been pretty tight preflop, but often likes to push in with a $100 stack when he does decide to play. He's done this with QQ and AA, so apparently only does it with the goods. No real read on him postflop.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 max, 6 handed)

Hero ($116.70)
BB ($50)
UTG ($61.50)
MP ($25.15)
CO ($60.40)
Button ($141.85)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls $1, MP folds, CO folds, Button calls $1, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($4) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($4) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets $3</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, Button calls $3.

River: ($10) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets $8</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises to $25</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to $55</font>, Button calls $30.

Final Pot: $120

I guess the big question is, is my reraise amount on the river correct? I was afraid a bigger raise would let him get out of the hand if he has a lower flush. I'll post results after a few responses.

[jslag]

I think the hand was well played. If the player is aggressive, I would indeed make the river raise more along the lines of $70. What kind of read did you have on your opponent?

I like your raise though. It's almost a min-raise, and with the pot size, he's almost always calling if he wasn't bluffing at you. If you make it more like $70+, it may look more suspicious to him and he might be able to get away from his hand if he's only got a straight/set/two pair. I think a lower flush will almost always call you, if you put him on that I'd raise more on the river.

Again, nicely played. I wouldn't think too much more about this hand. You led out and got raised and then called, which is usually all you can hope for in that situation.

[fimbulwinter]

about the best hand anyone can hope for. you may have missed an opportunity to stack him though, here's how:
first off i'm an aggro player, so my bets don't get much respect, i dont know if you play that way, but this line almost always works for me:
Preflop: good good
Flop: bet pot as a semi-bluff, this builds the pot so that later bets, like turn and river, will get called and that your push, with the nuts, on the river will get called.
turn: your money card, i'd bet out a little under pot to give him a chance to sense weakness and push on me. if he calls, it's going in on the river no matter what.
river: push
your river: your bet is great and will certainly get called, but i think i'd say it's slightly more advantageous to to push because you're hoping for the underflush or a straight, which will call, and any other hand will proabaly fold to a re-raise of any kind. did he have the K high flush?

fim

[gytten]

well, you say the nut-flush? what if he turned up 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif ?(straight flush.. the nuts)

anyway, I think you made a good raise.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
well, you say the nut-flush? what if he turned up 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif ?(straight flush.. the nuts)


[/ QUOTE ]

He would look up from his computer and immediately get smashed in the head by a grand piano. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[JrJordan]

Villains shows KcTc and I take down a hefty pot. If I had known he had a K high flush, I'm confident he would call a push. That being said, if he had any other flush though, Q high or lower, I could see him being able to get away from a push.

Gytten, you got me. Revise to 2nd nut flush. I'd still call any push from him obviously.

Fimbul. I like your aggression, but I don't think a flop bet is right here. I am in early position with 3 players to act behind me. My chances of hitting the flush on the turn are 1 in 5. With only 3 people to act, I'm not making a +EV decision even if they all call. Worse, if one of them raises I may have to fold because I don't have decent pot odds to call. It's very hard to play drawing hands out of position for this very reason. The only reason I played was because I was getting preflop odds of 7:1. That being said, if I was on the button or CO, I would make a bet on the flop for 2 distinct reasons. First, it gives me the chance to pick up a small pot when everyone else has checked to me showing weakness. Second, if I get callers, I may be able to get a free river card because they will check to me again. Late position, a bet is fine. Early position, pray it gets checked around and only call if you have decent odds.

Considering the other possibilities of hands he could have on the end, I think the slightly larger than minraise is good here (perhaps $60 or $65) instead of the all in. Just too easy for a smaller flush to get away. With a small raise, you know they'll make the crying call.

[fimbulwinter]

i feel you started playing poker as a limit player, yes, your math is correct, but here you're making a bluff, not betting for the value of getting called. say everyone had missed the flop but someone has you "beat" with AJ. the bet takes it down, forces him to make a mistake by FToP and is huge +EV. a bet that is called multiway is also +ev. the only outcome that hurts you is one guy getting the rocks to make a huge re-raise here on you with a better hand. (this is even more +EV because this re-raise can really only be made by a set or TPTK, if it's a set (and you fold) you were setting yourself up to get stacked as some of your outs are now dirty) here the most important, and indeed the most important part of all NL math thinking, is the implied odds of your flush. you got very very lucky for him to hit the K high flush, but if the pot was small and if he had a pair, he can fold to an aggro bet when you turn your flush. if the pot is big, he'll have to call, despite the fact that he pretty much knows his pair is sunk. this is why semi bluffing, especially in NL and super-especially in 6 handed NL is so monumentally important. 10 handed everyone has something to bet with, 6 handed it's time to bet that bottom pair, ace kicker hard.

bottom line, NL is about handing the other guy the noose early on, so you can kick the floor out from under him later. sometimes these moves are not, individually +EV, but so long as they are slightly -ev and the later bet is hugely +ev, they certainly should be made.

[JrJordan]

It's hard to semi-bluff out of position into a field of 3 other people. Stacks are not big enough against the other two opponents to really consider myself having decent implied odds against them. What do you plan on doing when you bet the turn, get called in two places, and miss the turn with a non club (the most likely thing to happen here)? Do you check/fold to a decent bet or fire another round? Either way you've dug yourself a deep hole by the bet on the flop, because its pretty unlikely that all 3 people will fold to your flop bet.

[fimbulwinter]

the turn situation, as you described, is a tough one for sure. it's really player dependant and card dependant. if the players are weak/tight and the card is a scare card, bet out again, if they're calling stations, check and then evaluate your odds for the call. we're talking about a measely flop bet here, so you're not risking your stack by semi-bluffing the flop. I make this move every time, especially 6 handed, but if you choose not to, that's your playing style. my line would win a small pots and big pots, yours would win medium pots. given my reads (which were right) and my style, i gave you my play on the hand; I never said mine was best, just what i would do in the situation, which happened to result in him getting stacked if he had any flush, not just the K high.