do i need tracking software to defend myself

[xrongor]

im not much for using the software, thats just not me. but with all this tracking software out there profiling me, do i need to use it just to defend myself?

or maybe i need to use it because its actually useful...

thoughts?

randy

[Wahoo91]

Hey no offense meant but...
my guess is that if you are not into analyzing your game to the Nth degree you will never be *really* good at poker.

It has been determined that the people with the most *natural talent* for poker are highly interested in statistical measurement of poker results and analysis of past results.

If I were you I would play for fun and stick to the lower limits and not worry about software or other means of game improvement.

This does not mean that you can not be a very good player, there are probably some people that get to be good by "feel" but my guess is that they are a HUGE minority (e.g. I can't picture Doyle firing up Poker Tracker, but I think those old school players are a dying breed, they simply have huge balls, unbelievable aggression, and awe inspiring people reading skills).

[xrongor]

its one thing to analyze your game to the n'th degree. its another entirely to become a slave to the tracking program. you seem to be suggesting that im am going to have to worry about facing the tracking programs and any skills i have are not enough.

so i guess your answer is yes, i need it to defend myself? i really hope poker hasnt come to this. a bunch of computer programs playing each other...

[Wahoo91]

I do not think you need to "defend" yourself. Of the people you will be playing so few will be using PT that it is inconsequential.

PT is only needed to improve your own game. It is invaluable for that. It also has many uses while playing as well, particularly if you play with the same people online alot. I do not really see any "defensive" uses for PT, they are all "offensive" uses (e.g. improving yourself, not decreasing others).

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
i really hope poker hasnt come to this. a bunch of computer programs playing each other...

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure you understand what the program does. IF you use, for example, Pokertracker it is mainly a big database with all the hands that you have played. It can tell you how much you win with AA raising UTG, if you win more calling then raising with A6s after 1 limper, and so on. It could all be done with paper and a pencil if you only wrote down every hand you played. Got nothing to do with computers playing each other.

[Nelly]

It is a common suggestion among pros to spend time away from the game reviewing your hands. To keep your game sharp you need to spend time thinking about your play away from the game. To do this in the past we were forced to take notes in between or after a session. All a tracking program does is record your hands and provide you much more information than you would be able to keep manually.

You don't need it to defend yourself. It should help those times you are thinking about and reviewing your game. If you don't do that now then a program is not going to help.

Good players in any sport or competition need to practice and prepare before a match - I think you are kidding yourself if you think you can become a great player by not thinking about the game away from the table - stat program or not.

[xrongor]

ok.

im not denying the power of the software to improve your game. but at the same time my gut tells me that the kind of person that actually knows how to apply the information in the tracker to improve their game (especially as you get into the finer and finer details) likely doesnt need it anyway to beat most of the people out there.

i dont think one needs to be in the top .1% of players to make money at this game. in fact i know it because im not, and i do. my primary survival skills (besides at least 'competent' play) are good instincts both at reading hands, and leaving tables i dont think i can beat.

the specific situation i fear is when the software can be used by someone with little understanding of the game to outplay anyone not using it. thats what i mean by 'defending myself'. it sounds like its not there yet.

thx for your feedback.
randy

[xrongor]

i religiously review hand histories. at this point in my progression i spend at least as much time analyzing my game as i do playing it. i absolutely believe in analysis of past play.

[xrongor]

yes, you are correct. i came here to get a better understand of what the software does and doesnt do.

randy

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
the specific situation i fear is when the software can be used by someone with little understanding of the game to outplay anyone not using it. thats what i mean by 'defending myself'. it sounds like its not there yet.


[/ QUOTE ]

Pokertracker will not allow a bad player to suddenly beat you.

[Nelly]

OK I hear you. If you are not using any tracking software at all then you'll find you can "review" more per hour with something like pokertracker compared to manual notes. Together with the extra statistics one could argue you get more out of an hour studying. That is the most your opponents are getting.

[xrongor]

ok. thx for all the help.

randy

[ncboiler]

Poker tracker is a tool. Much like any book you may read. I am assuming you have read poker books. Would you consider yourself a slave to them? Use the tool to make your game better. For some people it may make them a lot better and for some it may make them just a little better. Either way its +EV.

[Eclypse]

I have an idea, why don't you download the demo and see if it's something you might find useful. That's what I did, and I discovered that it was useful enough to purchase.

One thing poker tracker will do FOR SURE is let you know if you are a winning player. It will also let you know where your game needs improvement--sometimes these things are very hard to see without it. I discovered a lot about my game.

[comic2b]

I thought a lot of the value of the software would be to look up opponents to see how much the raise, if they win/lose, see the flop etc.

I thought this would be at least 50% of the value.

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
im not much for using the software, thats just not me. but with all this tracking software out there profiling me, do i need to use it just to defend myself?

or maybe i need to use it because its actually useful...

thoughts?

randy

[/ QUOTE ]

The only way you "defend" yourself with tracking software is by identifying leaks in your game then plugging them. I have found tracking software to be invaluable in analyzing my own play.

If you are a solid player, the only thing the tracking software in the hands of others will do is to make them less likely to join a game you are in. I play shorthanded primarily, and I don't like sitting down with another known TAG at the table unless there are a couple of known loose players. Even if I know what a generally good player's leaks are, I am still better off playing a poorer player.

[Sheriff Fatman]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought a lot of the value of the software would be to look up opponents to see how much the raise, if they win/lose, see the flop etc.

I thought this would be at least 50% of the value.

[/ QUOTE ]

For me, this is where the bulk of the value lies with PT. The 'Game Time' window effectively gives you the stats on everyone at your table. As an example, it makes a big difference to me if a raise or re-raise has come from a player with a 5% VPIP figure than from someone with 80% VPIP and raises 30% of these hands. Having this information available on screen is an incrediby powerful tool.

Sheriff

[Isura]

xrongor,
One feature of PT that you might not be aware of is the ability to replay your hands (like watching a video tape of yourself). After each session, I reply all the hands that I VP$IP. It's a quick and visual way to review your play. I then take a hand that I'm not sure about, and post it here. I think you can drastically increase your learning rate by playing, self-reviewing, and then getting input from others. It's working for me so far. /images/graemlins/smile.gif