Two hands from my last SNG

[AlmightyJay]

Definitely looking for help on these, because I'm totally uncertain about how I played them and how I should have played them. $2 + .20 SNG on Pacific.

First hand:

Early in the tournament, blinds are 15/30. Our table is seven-handed, and I'm the second highest stack with 1490. In the SB, I'm dealt Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif.

UTG and UTG+1 fold. Next person calls. CO folds. Button (who is barely behind me with 1397) raises to 100. This guy is an interesting character who I can't get a solid read on. I've seen him make some good plays and some questionable ones. I call his raise, as does the BB and UTG+2.

Flop: Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif

I have no idea how to feel about this flop. I'm given a very nice set, but I'm still behind to QK or QA, or KK. I feel that any of these are possible with the preflop raise. The board checks around to the button, who bets all-in. After a long time to ponder, I fold.

Could I have played this any other way? Was I too weak-tight? I was positive I was behind to a boat, and didn't want to risk everything this early.

Second hand:

It's later in the tournament, down to nine people. Blinds are 50/100. I'm mid-stacked UTG with 1160. I'm dealt K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I raise to 400. Board folds around to the SB, who is the chip leader with 5509. I don't have much of a read on him because I've only played a few hands, but I've seen him be a bully with his big stack, and I figured he wanted to try to bust me in this hand. BB folds so it's just the two of us to the flop.

Flop: 10/images/graemlins/club.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif

He bets 1279. I figured he either flopped a set (didn't think this was too likely unless he had TT), had a high pocket pair (I think he would have put me all-in preflop), or is being a bully and bluffing. I think he's being a bully, so I raise all-in.

Comments would be greatly appreciated.

[chill888]

Hi,

First hand is a great example of why you should only play top hands in the SB. You call a 100 raise with JQ and then get the most amazing flop (QQK) and are uncertain if you are behind. You must avoid playing hands like this or A10 or dozens of others because EVEN WHEN YOU HIT THEM you don't like them and you are way out of position.

That being said, rarely will a guy flop trips and bet all in scaring everyone away. After the flop, I think you should have called the all-in.

Your second hand is hard. YOu make a good raise with AKs and miss the flop. As I understand it you started with 1160 and now have only 760 left. Whether you call is totally person dependent. If he is at all tight solid you would do well to fold. If he has come out guns slinging every time, then gambling with a call is OK. Either way you are in a lousy position.

Good luck,

[schlach]

I agree with Mr. Chill that calling here was a mistake. You had very little in this pot, and not a lot of expectation that there would eventually be a lot in the pot to be won. With a couple of limpers, it's possible that you could be left facing the raiser heads-up, quite likely with the worst hand. It's also possible that, if you call with a marginal hand with so many left to act, someone could reraise behind you, leaving you truly in the lurch. This is an easy fold in my book. Cold-calling raises (or cool-calling, in the case of your SB) can be a serious leak, and you should probably be doing it much less frequently than folding or reraising. You might want to look back at hand-histories to find out how many times you are cold-calling raises, and what the outcomes were.

That said, once in, that flop could not have hit you harder, and the pre-flop raiser was most likely hopelessly behind after you tripped up. You should have called his all-in. It is certainly possible that he would have raised pre-flop with KQ or AQ, but the chances of him having a queen drop after being able to account for three of them. Better than being convinced that you're beat, even with such a favorable flop, would be to determine a range of possible hands that the pre-flop raiser could have, and what percentage of them could include a queen. If you think he was a tight player and would have raised with pocket pairs AA to 99, AKs to AJs, AK to AQ, and KQ, you can determine the possible combinations of hole cards and how likely he is to have each one. Of the 88 hands he could have started with (if anyone wants to check my math), only 51 are possible with that flop (1 AQs, 3 KQo, 4 AQo, 9 AKo, 3 AKs, 4AJs, 6 AA, 3 KK, 6 JJ, 6 TT, and 6 99). Only 11 of them have you dominated (1 AQs, 3 KQo, and 3 KK), or about 21.6% of the time. The other 78.4% of the time you are a substantial favorite. It turns out, after crunching the numbers on the PokerCalculator (http://koti.mbnet.fi/jraevaar/pokercalculator/), that post-flop you were a 72%-to-28% favorite, which is about the same amount you were behind pre-flop. In other words, a call was definitely in order, as much as a fold was in order pre-flop.

My guess? He was trying to scare a weak king or a better pocket pair into laying down the best hand, figuring no queens were out. If he'd had one, he'd probably slow play it a bit... but that's just speculation, without knowing a bit more about the player.

[schlach]

On the second hand, I think your mistake was in not going all-in pre-flop. Being all-in has a lot of advantages in this situation. For starters, of the hands that might call you, liberally estimated as the top 8%, you're most likely a pretty decent favorite or only a slight dog. I just crunched some numbers (again, on PokerCalculator (http://koti.mbnet.fi/jraevaar/pokercalculator/), my new best friend), and you're a 60% favorite against the range of hands that might reasonably call you. Once you're down to 10 or so blinds, this is acceptable.

The other advantage is that AKs picks up a lot of strength when it gets to see the turn and river. Being all-in pre-flop buys you five cards to make top pair, rather than just three, and folding on the flop if you miss is not a great option, as it leaves you with 7 blinds, when you might have the best hand, or would make the best hand in two more cards.

The third reason all-in is a better strategy is that it makes it much less likely that you will be called. At this point in the tournament, you wouldn't mind a caller, since you're a favorite to double-up, but winning the blinds without a showdown with a drawing hand is always acceptable. This is the stage of tournaments when you're trying to steal as many blinds without seeing a flop as possible, and going all-in makes it much more likely that someone would rather just fold than risk a much more substantial portion of his chips to call you with the worst of it.

[Eder]

#1 hand...call him he prob holdin AK,if he had AQ most people would milk it...
#2 hand...push preflop...as it was fold to the raise...you have the button next hand...push there...jmo

[willie]

1st hand- definitely call. i tend to run on trends with online poker, there are so many players and it's impossible to pick them all apart seperately until later in a game when i've seen a bunch of their hands, but TYPICALLY no one would play a set or boat like this. i call with qj and devastate his ace king.

second hand.

all in preflop was probably the play, folding is probably the play after a huge missed flop.

[AlmightyJay]

Thanks for the responses. They'll definitely help in the future.

Hand #1:

I folded, BB called. Turn came up 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, river came up 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, and I was smacking myself for the rest of the tournament as the button showed 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, and the BB K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif /images/graemlins/frown.gif In retrospect, I should have realized that the all-in on the flop was a bluff.. but I didn't.

Hand #2:

I raise all-in. Turn comes Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, river comes 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, and he flips over J/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif to bust me. My only consolation was that I read him right and got unlucky.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

First hand: I would bet the pot as first to act. With trips (2 on the board), out of position, and not the best kicker, I would rather control the action. If he raises you all-in, I would call. I think he would have folded.

Second hand: Not sure I would go all-in pre-flop as others recommend. In fact, I would probably have raised smaller. As the blinds go up, 2.5xBB (instead of your 4xBB) is usually enough of a raise to represent the big hand you have. It is also easier to fold post-flop or to a reraise that you are certain is AA or KK (never that certain at these levels though). In fact, it might have induced a reraise from the bully and then I would have reraised all-in.

[Lori]

I have no idea how to feel about this flop. I'm given a very nice set, but I'm still behind to QK or QA, or KK. I feel that any of these are possible with the preflop raise

You give your own very good reasons to fold preflop.

The board checks around to the button, who bets all-in. After a long time to ponder, I fold.

Whilst you could be behind here, people who flop real monsters don't tend to bet all-in as they want callers.
Given that you are beating all but the real monsters, you should shut your eyes and call here.
Occasionally they will flip KK or KQ or AQ, but more often they will show AK or AA or some irrelevant crud like JJ.


He bets 1279

This may be covered later in the thread (I rarely read ahead so as not to taint my initial thoughts) but this is a bigger bet than you have chips, so it's hard for me to comment.
Exact values are critical here.

Lori

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
First hand: I would bet the pot as first to act. With trips (2 on the board), out of position, and not the best kicker, I would rather control the action. If he raises you all-in, I would call. I think he would have folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly why you don't bet the pot. Let him bet; you almost certainly have the best hand. Once he goes all in, you are 100% sure you have him beat and must call it.

In the AK hand, this is why you go all in preflop, but you should certainly fold on this flop. You didn't catch it and he's putting you all in. This is a stupid time to decide to play table sheriff shortstacked.

(To the original poster: These are seriously basic questions. No offense, but you should read TPFAP before you play more tournaments, since all this stuff is covered here and you'll get a lot out of it.)