the fish are still out there

I remember reading a few months ago a thread that basically said that it was a lot tougher to win now in internet cardrooms because the really bad players had mostly disappeared, busted out or just found a less expensive hobby. Well, I just started playing the 3-6 and single table tournament games at Paradise (played every day for last two weeks)and, as a novice, I have to say that the general standard of play is pretty terrible.


People are routinely opening UTG with 5-5 or 9-8 suited, raising in mid position with stuff like K-10os and NOBODY folds the BB under any circumstances. (ok I exaggerated on the last point, but people are paying a lot of money to 'protect'hands like 10-7os in the BB.) An Ace seems to be played from any position with any kicker and with no regard to the number of bets.


Of course this leads to many suck outs of the worst kind, my favourite, which fortunately did not happen to me,was when a guy raised with A-Js in the BB and got raised back by the button. The BB called and bet out when flop came A-J-6. The button called and a 4 came on the turn. Again the BB bet and the button called. River brought another 6, the BB bets and the Button raised. Turns out that the button was playing on 6-4 in the hole!


That was an extreme example, but similar things happen all the time. The problem is that if you play 'correctly'it's difficult to exploit what is going on until you are sure that there isn't just a lot of advertising involved.


Anyhow, I would just like to point out that, in my experience, the average level of play at Paradise is very, very poor at the lower limits and should be a goldmine for all you good players out there.

If the game is loose and passive it would be a mistake not to limp in with 55 or 98suited. If its agressive and loose the 55 is still definetely profitable since you get tremendous implied odds. The 98s is lovely in a loose passive game- once again definetely a mistake to fold there.

Playing the Ace-rag type hands are definetely mistakes that one likes to see the fish make.

Playing "correctly" against total nitwits is different then playing against people that have a clue, and these folks in the 3-6 game aren't advertising- they just play bad.

Finally, it really doesn't matter that much if people are playing awful in a 3-6 holdem game. There's no money to be made at such a small limit. One has to play extremely well just to beat the rake- and if the rake is too big it might not even be betable.

Note that playing hands like 55 or 98s in early position, or open raising with KTo from MP, are mistakes, but only marginally. And in (very) loose games limping in with 55 or 98s might in fact be correct. You can defend open-raising with KTo also, when players left to act are very tight, and blinds are weak tight.


Be mindfull that you dont make the mistake judging a players postflop play on what you've seen preflop!


I agree that the level you're talking about surely is beatable (I've beat it myself for quite some time), but to me it seems you dont play long enough in this level to judge whether the games are very very poor or not. IMO the Paradise 3/6 games are better than the 8/16 game in the casino where I play in.


Regards

Ok It HAS happened to me - about a half hour ago. I was on the button with A-K and raised two middle position callers: the SB dropped, the BB called as did the other two guys. Flop comes 3s-4c-Kc. Its checked round to me, I raise and the BB calls, the others pass. The turn and river are 8s-Jh I bet out each time and the BB calls. He turns over 4h-3d and 'takes it down'. How the hell can you call a raise with 3-4 off suit, even in the BB? Ok, he was in front after the flop, but it's tough to put somebody on that kind of a hand when you are trying to work out whats going on.


When you don't know anything about the other players I start off by using my own frame of reference for what they might have, given their position and betting pattern. I admit I can't get to grips with the notion that you can play any crap out of the BB just because you already have money in the pot, to me the money is irrelevant, you should call raises with the same values that you would use on the button, at least, otherwise you have to hit a miracle flop to avoid throwing your money away.


YES, I AM ON TILT! :-)

Stevo,


Thanks for paying my bills.


Mike

Just show me the logic behind a call like that is all I'm saying.

Remember..with his preflop call he gets most likely 1:7. I'm not saying it's correct to call, and in fact it's wrong, but remember: his mistake costs him only a small fraction of a small bet.


In this case he also played bad postflop, but think that there are lots of people who make these small mistakes preflop, but can play pretty well postflop.


One of the hardest thing to read is a free BB play.


Regards

OK Thanks for that. I'm not steaming anymore (despite just being busted out in 4th place in a single table tourney at Paradise) :-) It's just tough to rationalise a play that I could never bring myself to make.

of course one of the most important rules of playing well.....realizing that your opponent thinks differently than you....