Froggy's Daily Hand. #2: AQs, When do you avoid to Semi-Bluff?

[MrFroggyX]

Hey!

This hand is very simple..
I'm in late position and flop the nut flush draw. Perfect opportunity to make a semi-bluff? And perhaps get a free card and also disguise my hand? I thought so but got shut out from the pot /images/graemlins/frown.gif

My Question:
If you get an opportunity to semi-bluff your draw. Do you always take it and bet? Or is it times where you instead call afraid that you could get re-raised? Does it matter if it's a multiway pot?



Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB ($172.55)
BB ($118.85)
UTG ($120.95)
UTG+1 ($115.40)
MP1 ($92.80)
MP2 ($117.40)
MP3 ($72)
MrFroggy ($115.30)
Button ($108.35)

Preflop: MrFroggy is CO with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls $2, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $2, MP3 folds, MrFroggy calls $2, Button calls $2, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($12) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets $10</font>, <font color="CC3333">MrFroggy raises to $20</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises to $115.4 (All-In)</font>, MrFroggy folds.

Final Pot: $147.40
<font color="green">Main Pot: $52, won by MP2.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: $95.40, returned to MP2.</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
No showdown. MP2 wins $147.40. </font>



Have a nice weekend everybody! /images/graemlins/smile.gif And let the poker god be with you /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[xhobbes]

Maybe I'm too tight, I don't know, but I just try to semi-bluff when 1st : I'm last to act. Second, there was no bet on the flop. 3rd, when there is not more than 4 ppl on the flop, and 4th, there was no preflop raise and I think nobody hit something, or when there was a little PFR and I think nobody hit something (but if I get check-raised when there was a PFR or get call I just give it up).

So in conclusion, I just try to steal pots with semi-bluff, so if I get called I can still get something on the turn.
I really don't re-raise somebody whith a draw, except maybe somebody that steals a lot of pot.

[BobboFitos]

As a side note, I really like your Daily Hands... very interesting.

My Question:
If you get an opportunity to semi-bluff your draw. Do you always take it and bet?

No, I dont "always" take it. I dont like to semi-bluff raise, because as you said, I can get shut off from a hand I really like, and I hate throwing away hands I like. I prefer semibluff betting... Plus, raises build the pot on earlier streets, making it harder to bluff at on the turn/river in case I miss. (!) I dont like semi bluffing out of position, either... (However, I dont like putting things into an "always/never" context. Mixing it up is fine, occaisonally semibluffing first to act for example, but it's someting I try not to make my habit) People also somehow doubt that whenever I bet last to act, I have a hand. (And they're normally right!!!) That means the bluff part of my semi-bluff just doesn't work enough.

I like semibluffing in small pots a LOT more, because it's easier to get away from them if they dont hit, plus people care less about smaller pots, and therefore, they're easier to pick up.

Or is it times where you instead call afraid that you could get re-raised?

Yes! Also, sometimes when I cold-call, the original bettor will check the turn, expecting my call to mean more strength than it is. It's almost a free-card call, not exactly sure of this phenomenom, perhaps it's just recent, does this happen to other people often /images/graemlins/confused.gif ?

Does it matter if it's a multiway pot?

YES! You "know" never to bluff in a pot with 3+ opponents. Like a semibluff. The bluff part just doesn't work out well enough. That said, betting for value (smaller amounts) to get multi-way callers isn't so bad, and if they fold, even better! So... Yeah, I guess I do semi-bluff in multi-way pots, even if it's not always the optimal move.


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) converter

SB ($172.55)
BB ($118.85)
UTG ($120.95)
UTG+1 ($115.40)
MP1 ($92.80)
MP2 ($117.40)
MP3 ($72)
MrFroggy ($115.30)
Button ($108.35)

Preflop: MrFroggy is CO with Q, A.
UTG calls $2, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $2, MP3 folds, MrFroggy calls $2, Button calls $2, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($12) J, 4, 7 (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 bets $10, MrFroggy raises to $20, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, MP2 raises to $115.4 (All-In), MrFroggy folds.

Final Pot: $147.40
Main Pot: $52, won by MP2.
Pot 2: $95.40, returned to MP2.


As for your hand... Atleast his reraise all in told you your overcard outs were no good! (ha-ha)
As for the raise, ignoring results, I still dont like it so much. The bettor to bet into a multi-way pot is not bluffing, so you are raising knowing you want the better hand to fold. The question is how much of a better hand will he fold? TPWK? TP2K? You have spades so he's not betting that; OESD is unlikely; at worst I think you have to give him credit for A-J, with TPTK. He certainly doesn't have J-7 or J-4 or 7-4... (Right? I hope not, it's party, but...)

So he either has a hand like J-T, Q-J, K-J, or A-J. It depends on your opponent, but some will lay down all of these hands, and for the looser variety, some may not lay any of them down. The bad news is A-J and Q-J have your hand reverse dominated, so if they did play on with them, you wouldn't be a favorite.

Anyways, it's also possible he has a set, in which case he's never laying it down. So you're raising to eliminate a small range of hands, while I feel a larger range will pop you back and move you off your hand.

In this case, ignoring the results, it was a bad raise because more hands will push you off then you'll push off. (If that makes sense? /images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Anyways, I do like this raise if the board was something like K J 7, or Q J 3, etc etc, only because you can represent a two-pair or set hand or whatnot. (Allows you more flexibility as to what you have)

Sorry for the long winded nature of this post...

[MrFroggyX]

Very nice post Bobbo.. Sorry that I haven’t responded sooner.. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Anyway, I like your thinking. Good advice.. And I also have come to the conclusion that my biggest mistake in this hand was that I shut out everyone else!! If I had smooth call his bet I could have gotten the other players to call and build the pot. But instead I did the opposite.. I shut out the other people and also put me in the danger of being re-raised from the original bettor.

Very bad! I think I will steep down on my semi-bluffs if there are multiway pots because I don't want people out.. I want them in the pot so I can get paid off if I hit my draw.

[Sponger15SB]

I know this wasn't your goal when you posted this, but why didn't you raise in the CO with AQs?

[purnell]

[ QUOTE ]
except maybe somebody that steals a lot of pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

'Round here, stealing pot will get you in a world o' hurt. 'Specially this time of year... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MrFroggyX]

I know this wasn't your goal when you posted this, but why didn't you raise in the CO with AQs?

Beacuse I'm a weak and tight motherfucker.. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Ionphore]

Raise preflop seems mandatory...
Calling on the flop is better you would like to keep the pot multiway if possible.
Also your semi bluff was a minraise. A better semi bluff would be to make it 40 to go. Then when he moves in you are pot commited and you should call. Most likely your opp here has 44 or 77 for a flopped set. But what if he is just overplaying AJ and protecting against a flush draw? or what if he is semi bluffing on his own with 5s6s? If he has a hand like that you are a nice favorite. He may have semi bluffed your weaker semi bluff. Anyhow, I would semi bluff bigger if I were you, or I would just call, don't like the minimum much as it just forces it to be heads up unless someone was slowplaying in which case they move in too. Also when he moves in on you I don't think its that bad a move to call. Although folding is fine too...

[AncientPC]

Like Bobbos, I'll semi bluff small pots or semi bluff bet if I'm first to act.

However I will only call if someone bets at least pot size in front of me.