Can't seem to cure my tight weak play

I play low-limit casino hold 'em at the Taj and on Paradise Poker.


On Paradise I am breaking even, I can't seem to get anywhere. In the casino, the last 2 sessions have brought the worst cards I've ever seen. I think I won one pot in 4 hours of play the other night. But this is all besides the point.


I am a tight player and I know the starting hands by heart. It is very rare that I make a mistake pre-flop. I am very confident in that aspect of my game, so for the sake of this argument let's all assume that is the case.


How can I go about improving post-flop? That seems to be where I run into the most trouble. My post-flop is extremely weak, there's no other explanation to my lack of winning as far as I can tell. I've read Jones and HPFAP and thought I understood the concepts but end up second guessing myself quite often in the middle of a 3 or 4 way pot post-flop. Does anyone have any suggestions? Should I just keep putting in my time and I will grasp it or what? Thanks for any comments,


Getting frustrated,


CB

couple things,


1. to be breaking even playing low limit poker is a good accomplishment.


2. only winning one pot in 4 hours is frustrating. It is also likely to happen on a regular basis.


without knowing more about how you play I'd say its possible you're just experiencing a bad run of cards.


as for post-flop play, I think this just takes experience, experience, study and reflection. I am still learning. read twoplustwo.

If you could post some of the trouble hands you've played then it would be easy for 2+2ers to help you out.


Here's what I would do. Next time, write down the hand details in a small notebook and post the hand histories here. I'm sure the experts here could improve your play dramatically.

For what it's worth, I think that if you play perfect before the flop 100% of the time you become extremely easy to read and your opponents can get out of your way. I'm not saying play "imperfectly" half the time, but once in a while you've got to show down a hand that no one expects.

If you are just breaking even in low limit over the long run, there is probably something wrong with your play. Are you playing your position? If you are playing too tight, if there is such a thing, you may be playing too few hands. Do you fold to easily? You may be playing like a rock rather than tight agressive. I don't know the structure in AC for hold'em, so it's hard for me to say how you should play. If the games are loose/passive, you can definately play more hands. If they are loose agressive, you may have to play tight and wait until you have position. Do you push your edge? If people are folding to you too often, take advantage of that and bluff once or twice. These are just general suggestions.


You probably just haven't figured it out yet. It took me a long time to apply the concepts I learned from the books. Buy Turbo Texas Hold'em and practice there. It may help you learn to apply the concepts you read about in the books.


Hang in there.

I'm not an expert, just a beginner...


but maybee you go too much by memorising tips and table, not enough by feelings and analysing other players at the table and their play. Myself i have never memorised a table i know what cards have better multyway chance of win or already a madehand like high pocket pair so i adjust my preflop game by feelings i got at the table.

I am constantly working on the weak/tight aspect of my game, which has a tendency to creep in to a much larger degree than I'd like it to.


IMO, it's a very complex subject...probably too complex to discuss here in a way that would be meaningful.


I would suggest that you get a hold of Schoonmakers book, and read it thoroughly. I believe that it could give you valuable insights into both your (and others) playing profiles that would significantly help your game in the long run.

As the others have mentioned, this is a large subject. Some specific hands will definitely help. I will say that one thing I see newer low limit players do very often (which pegs them as weak tight) is call too much post-flop. I can almost hear their thoughts "I got a piece of that but that's the BB betting, he might have a weird two pair and my top pair, good kicker is beat but I can't fold, I'll call." Or they will *always* check to the raiser. Or they will check and call, way too much. Remember that it is tight and agressive, not just tight that wins. People will pay you off in LLHE when you have a good hand, raise liberally on the flop when your tight starting hand hits something. Figure out who will pay you off with second pair the whole way, who will raise on draws (then reraise), who only checkraises with the nuts. Keep the pressure on them after the flop. Sure, you'll lose some pots that you helped build but the ones you win will be bigger. You will also gain respect at the table because people will realize if you are in the hand its going to be expensive.


Also, read the Medium Stakes forum here. The concepts will not translate directly to a game with lots of players post-flop but those guys play with a style you should emulate. Observe how they approach different situations.


KJS

I finished reading "The Psychology of Poker" by Alan N. Schoonmaker, Ph.D. a couple weeks ago and it gave me a lot to think about.


It will give you insights into poker other than the typical starting hand charts, probabilities, or post-flop strategy.

Are you sure your post-flop play is weak-tight? This suggests you tend to check when you should bet, call when you should raise, and fold when you should call or raise. If this is you, I have two suggestions:


1) Always ask yourself whether a bet or raise may be better than a check or call.


2) Remember that good/aggressive players will make deceptive bets and raises on the flop with relatively weak hands, so don't give those bets too much respect. [But beware that if you are in fact a weak-loose player, this advice could prove costly!]


Regards,


Mike

Just wanted to say THANKS guys for the quality responses. Every post made me think about some aspect of my game or how to improve it. Next time I hit the tables I'll keep track of some hands that stumped me and see what your opinions are.


One thing I have realized in LLHE (at least the $3-$6 at the Taj) that is very frustrating to me is that you seem to run into two specific types of players: rocks and idiots/fish. I know who the rocks are right away so I change seats accordingly and pay attention to position. However it's the fish I have trouble with, because you can't make plays against them it seems, mostly because they are not paying attention or know any better. You can't get them off hands, or make them fold their pair or dueces. All you can do is make is expensive for them, and it seems lately that it just ends up being expensive for me when some fish hits a runner-runner straight holding 24s.


Anyway, thanks again guys. I'll post some hands soon. Take care,


CB