What winning poker concept is least understood by ordinary Players

[bygmesterf]

Im thinking the importance of defending your blinds in short handed situations.

[Ponks]

Bad beats dont just happen to them.
Also bad beats should be welcomed in a sense.

Ponks

[Nottom]

Poker is about winning money, not winning pots.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
Poker is about winning money, not winning pots.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd have to agree. This knowledge, or lack of it, explains nearly every mistake poor players make.

[PapaSan]

value bet

[Malone Brown]

Gap concept

[thirddan]

I agree, most new players don't realize that the value of certain hands changes based on the situation...They only see the value of the cards and don't have a "sliding scale" value for the hands they are dealt...

eg. AJ may be a fold early or behind a raise, but a raise later...

[Michael Davis]

"Im thinking the importance of defending your blinds in short handed situations."

Your suggestion is way too specific and technical for ordinary players. Probably the answer is that ordinary players don't understand they should bet and raise instead of check and call when they have a hand.

-Michael

[mistrpug]

The decreased importance of pot odds in tournaments.

[Louie Landale]

Ordinary players? "Make the play with the best EV"

- Louie

[dogmeat]

Winning poker is as much about playing your opponents as it is about the cards you play.

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[James Boston]

Actually, I think that ever since Teddy KGB ate his Oreo at the wrong time, far too many players try to look for tells or other stupid little things that make them think "they're playing the man, not the cards."

[SossMan]

Position.


ok, thread done.

[Skirmish]

That winners study the game.

[Allan]

folding


Allan

[timmer]

Overcalling in hold em
structures and hand selection in stud

[Paul2432]

river betting

[LokiV]

Everyone listed something different.

How about: A pocket pair does not mean you *DESERVE* to win the hand?

[Michael Davis]

This is the best answer thus far to the question posed.

-Michael

[Zeno]

That almost all people that play the game lose.

-Zeno

[Andy B]

There are no good hands--only good situations.

[maryfield48]

Disqualified on the basis of not being strictly a poker concept. But all the same, the tendency to be result-oriented has to be right up there. All it takes is one pot to cancel out 2 hours of losing, and convince a fish that playing J3o, or slowplaying top pair on a co-ordinated board, etc. etc., is a winning strategy.

[davebytheway]

table selection

[rigoletto]

Total novices fail to realize that poker is not all chance.

Ordinary players fail to realize that chance is a big part of poker.

[Phishy McFish]

I would say the fact that calling someone who is "bluffing" isn't good if you still can't beat their hand.

[goofball]

EV

[PhilipJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Total novices fail to realize that poker is not all chance.

Ordinary players fail to realize that chance is a big part of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds like me. Then it sounds even more like me. This is like, uh, wild, man.

[PapaSan]

[ QUOTE ]
I would say the fact that calling someone who is "bluffing" isn't good if you still can't beat their hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

if u cant beat his hand then he's not blufing is he?

[Malarky]

[ QUOTE ]
There are no good hands--only good situations.

[/ QUOTE ]


YOU JUST BLEW MY MIND

[m2smith2]

Negreanu recently had an old article re-published wherein he talked about people spending too much time looking for physical tells to the exclusion of letting someone’s betting/raising/checking do the telling.

[m2smith2]

Not that I've been here that long, but these are damned good answers.

Since I don't think it's been posted yet, I'll go broadly with adjustments to short-handed play. Especially the re-valuation of some hands the the devaluation of others, but also aggression in post-flop play.

[Wahoo91]

Poor playing style, whether it be LP, TP, or LAG.

Very few understand that TAG gets the money, and even if they do, they can not execute the style.

[Boopotts]

How reverse implied odds can (or at least should) impact the play of a hand has to be, IMO, the least understood poker concept out there.

Honorable mention:
1) The fact that most hand play better either heads up, or in big multi-way pots, then they do against exactly two or three opponents.

2) That top pair of Q's or higher can often be slowplayed on the flop in nothing pots against aggressive players.

3) That small pocket pairs are usually not good candidates for isolation pre-flop three bets against average players.

[Al Mirpuri]

Game selection is everything.

[UWWJAMES]

Definately a point worth making

[sthief09]

1st: play tight
2nd: play aggressive
3rd: pick your spots to play aggressive

(in chronological order, not order of importance)


for me, the most important concept was open-raising, and not limping first in often.

[Vince Lepore]

Some good answers but that fact is that the most least understood winning poker concept by ordinary players is that there are such things as "winning poker concepts"!

Vince

[Moyer]

The one I notice most often is that that YOU WANT calling stations in your game (I guess this would be included in EV).

It's the myth that loose games are impossible to beat. Even very experienced players believe in this.

People complain all the time online and in live games. "It's all luck when you have this many people calling you down."

This myth is what creates 90% of the table coaches that yell at fish for rivering a 2-outer.

I would much rather have someone suck out on me than have to listen to some idiot whining about this all night.

[skp]

It's often best to check or call particularly in heads-up situations even when you think that there's a good chance that your hand is best. But most guys are so scared to give out free or cheap cards that they incoreectly bet or raise. Simple example is when you 3 bet someone to your right preflop with say AQ. The flop comes Axx. The raiser bets into you. Viewed in isolation (i.e. disregarding metagame considerations), the best play is to simply keep calling him rather than raising (bet if he checks somewhere downstream typically the river). Many winning players autoraise the flop though.

And, in general, guys are too scared to check when out of position for fear of giving free cards. But the fact is that the fear is illusory. Once you check, guys these days will autobet. So, there is no free card danger. Also, they would bet many hands that they would have folded had you bet. And that is good for you so long as the pot is not that big.

I think one reason why many winning players don't check as often as thwey should is that it makes them look weak tight. You can't let ego get in the way of making the proper play.

[kona]

This is interesting reading for a novice player like myself. I find the more I learn the less I knew. If I had to say one thing it would be that if you have the hand that is the nuts bet it and get the other people out before some ridiculous outdraw happens.

[fnord_too]

The outcome of the hand is unimportant, only making the right decision based on the available information matters.

[jaybee_70]

Can somebody make a poll out of these replies? Do you think consensus would be reached if we list 10-15 choices and allow like 3 votes? Just an idea. Not sure how to set up a poll myself.

Thanks,
Joe

[LockLow34]

Don't play at a level above that which your bankroll will allow.

Oh, and play with a bankroll.

[SA125]

Playing online and B&M differ dramatically. Online, by far, defending the blinds is the answer. Online the button auto raises, even as low as 2-4, and it's basically 2 different games. Ring and the blinds. You will play and win with many hands from the blinds online you'd never touch in the B&M, where most players will chop.

In B&M, some games are tough and some extrodinarily LP pre-flop compared to online.

If I had to pick one, I'd say it's the blinds. Play them well online and, catch at least a few winners, you'll be ahead.

[Grisgra]

No matter how good you are . . . Tilt will kick your sorry poker-playing ass. When you're down, loosening up to win it all back quick will break you faster than . . . well, let's just say, fast /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Drives us from +EV to -EV, drives them to -EV to --EV . . .

[MaxPower]

Position.

They may know that position is important, but they don't really understand why and don't make use of their position.

Most players learn after a while which hands are the "good" ones but play them regardless of position.

Also after then flop they don't make the best use of position.

[Phishy McFish]

he doesn't believe that to be true. If you're staring at a AKT flop and you go all in with Qx and no flush possible.....you are bluffing. Just because I have Jx and no flush draw either doesn't make your play "not a bluff" unless you honestly put me on such a hand.

[TonyBlair]

Betting and raising. Needling works too but leaves me with a dirty feeling inside. I'd rather earn less. And yes, the pope is my dad.

[Sarge85]

Proper Hand Selection, and it's not even close.

Everything else builds off of this.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[DemonDeac Holding Rockets]

Position and right hand selection

[FrankLu99]

[ QUOTE ]
That almost all people that play the game lose.

-Zeno

[/ QUOTE ]

game selection

surround yourself with worse players

[mikimaus]

All players that play above the very lowest limits of holdem understand all concepts. The difference these days is in fine details, practise, accuracy, feel, people skills, talent. What comes to blind defense vs. nonrocky raises it matters nothing what one calls on the big blind with as they are all marginal hands because of the about 1/4 pot odds one is getting, though it's perhaps better to be heads up then, but that's a fine detail.

[jasonHoldEm]

Discipline

[Al_Capone_Junior]

The concept that is by FAR least understood, and it's not even close, is the concept of calling a preflop raise with a hand that is either a small favorite or a big dog, or perhaps a collosally huge dog. You see it all the time, especially in no limit tournaments, people cold calling with 55, 88, J8s, KJo, A8s etc when it should be perfectly clear to even the most inept 2+2er that these hands should be folded so fast they leave a flaming trail to the muck.

The second place finisher is probably seen in the billions of complete morons who will call collosally huge bets with draws (usually flush draws) when they obviously (to even the most inept 2+2er that is) don't have anything even close to the correct odds to draw.

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I didn't rank this #1 but I like your answer anyway.

great thread people.

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

OK, you are the first one I am going to disagree with here, and "it's not even close."

[ QUOTE ]
All players that play above the very lowest limits of holdem understand all concepts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Virtually ALL players at ANY level don't understand even 2/3 of these concepts. Probably 98%+ of ALL players EVER don't understand ALL these concepts. 90%+ of players taken across the spectrum of levels don't have a CLUE about MORE THAN 50% of these concepts. You give out WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY too much credit. The "average" player these days IS A COMPLETE MORON WHEN IT COMES TO POKER.

[ QUOTE ]
The difference these days is in fine details, practise, accuracy, feel, people skills, talent.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just SO far from the truth that it's nearly laughable. This might have been true 15 or 30 years ago, but today, with the poker boom, the fine details are barely relevant to your overall earning capacity when compared to the fundamentals of solid play.

[ QUOTE ]
What comes to blind defense vs. nonrocky raises it matters nothing what one calls on the big blind with as they are all marginal hands because of the about 1/4 pot odds one is getting

[/ QUOTE ]

This is absolutely laughable. I sure hope you were joking in this entire post, because if you weren't then you need to go back to remedial beginning basics of poker 000.0001. Typically in limit hold'em you are getting 3.5:1 pot odds on a blind steal when you are in the big blind (NOT 1:4, nomenclature COUNTS). This means there are A LOT of hands that are FAR from marginal, and are actually GOOD HANDS. It DOES matter what you decide to play here, and it also matters whether you call, reraise, or fold. Tho many more hands become marginal calling hands from the BB vs. a steal raise, saying they are ALL marginal is simply wrong. I don't know about you, but there are still many hands I fold from the BB, even against a steal. I also call with some, and reraise with others.

al

[Wahoo91]

OK, you are the first one I am going to disagree with here, and "it's not even close."

I agree with al.

[Saint_D]

I think the concept would be (by definition) whichever one we haven't mentioned yet. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I guess it depends on "ordinary". I would have to say based on the stats I have seen that the "ordinary" player in .5/1 doesn't understand that they should call/bet with a lot fewer starting hands.

-Saint_D

[Duke]

Betting because "they might fold" is dumb if they'll never fold.

This is a typical PartyPoker phenomenon.

~D

[Jett Rink]

Many weak players get married to their hands and won't let go. Strange with the divorce rate so high.

[evain]

Keep a level head and leave the table if you tilt.

[patrick dicaprio]

the amount of effort and thought it takes to be a good player. this includes mastering everything that everyone posted here.

Pat

[PITTM]

BANKROLL MANAGEMENT. Its hard to not tilt when youre playing 25nl or 20+2 tourneys with 60 dollars in your account. i still get a little worried playing 25nl with a grand, i think i must get it from my mother.

rj

[Bloop]

[ QUOTE ]
Many weak players get married to their hands and won't let go. Strange with the divorce rate so high.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the contrary. After a divorce, your hands are all you have...

[Tommy Angelo]

[ QUOTE ]
Im thinking the importance of defending your blinds in short handed situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to say the importance of not defending your blinds in short handed situations.

[CrisBrown]

Hi bygme,

Online: That the fold button isn't a programming error.

B&M: That "playing poker well" is not the same as "performing the role of poker player well."

Cris