Cry Me A River
09-01-2004, 09:35 PM
Do ram & jam techniques have any place in SNG play?
For example, early in a $5 or $10 SNG so the blinds are still tiny and stacks are all about even. You're on the button with Ah2h. 5 players limp in in front of you. You limp, the SB completes and BB checks. Flop is Kd7h4h. SB and BB check, UTG min-bets and everyone calls to you.
Do you make a (small/min) raise here? In low limit/ring/no fold 'em you'd raise here any time you expect most/everyone to call (ie: Just about always) since it's a longterm +EV whenever you do make the flush. However, my SOP in SNGs has been to simply call here (as long as I have pot/implied odds) to see cards as cheaply as possible and only then try to cash in once I've made the flush.
However, it now occurs to me that a (small/min) raise here might be better ("odds to raise"?). I don't mean a semi-bluff, I mean a smallish raise to pump the pot while keeping everyone in. I ask, because I don't think I've ever seen anyone raise like this in a game, nor do I remember seeing such a play in any hand history posted here (but then, since this is a new thought for me, it's possible I just never noticed it and everyone's doing this routinely).
It's not unusual in tournaments to give up long term +ev where the downside is a big hit to your stack (ie: Avoiding unnessesary all-in's where you're a marginal favorite). Is this such a case?
The Downside
- Will frequently cost you some extra chips early.
- If someone makes a big/pot-sized bet on the turn and you haven't made your hand yet, you may not have odds to call and see the river.
The Upside
- Gives you a bigger pot when you make the flush - it can be tough to make a flush pay since everyone slows down when one is available.
- Disguises your hand since low level players raise with draws just about never which increases your chance of getting paid off even more.
- Bigger pot means opponents more likely to feel pot commited and more likely to stay around if you do make the flush.
- You may get to see the river for free if you need to.
- Very faint chance you might take down the pot right here.
This is obviously going to be situational. You're never going to do this against a table of rocks, and you don't want to commit any subtantial portion of your stack to a prospective hand early. But when the blinds are low compared to your stack size this might be a good way to pick up extra chips cheaply.
Any thoughts?
For example, early in a $5 or $10 SNG so the blinds are still tiny and stacks are all about even. You're on the button with Ah2h. 5 players limp in in front of you. You limp, the SB completes and BB checks. Flop is Kd7h4h. SB and BB check, UTG min-bets and everyone calls to you.
Do you make a (small/min) raise here? In low limit/ring/no fold 'em you'd raise here any time you expect most/everyone to call (ie: Just about always) since it's a longterm +EV whenever you do make the flush. However, my SOP in SNGs has been to simply call here (as long as I have pot/implied odds) to see cards as cheaply as possible and only then try to cash in once I've made the flush.
However, it now occurs to me that a (small/min) raise here might be better ("odds to raise"?). I don't mean a semi-bluff, I mean a smallish raise to pump the pot while keeping everyone in. I ask, because I don't think I've ever seen anyone raise like this in a game, nor do I remember seeing such a play in any hand history posted here (but then, since this is a new thought for me, it's possible I just never noticed it and everyone's doing this routinely).
It's not unusual in tournaments to give up long term +ev where the downside is a big hit to your stack (ie: Avoiding unnessesary all-in's where you're a marginal favorite). Is this such a case?
The Downside
- Will frequently cost you some extra chips early.
- If someone makes a big/pot-sized bet on the turn and you haven't made your hand yet, you may not have odds to call and see the river.
The Upside
- Gives you a bigger pot when you make the flush - it can be tough to make a flush pay since everyone slows down when one is available.
- Disguises your hand since low level players raise with draws just about never which increases your chance of getting paid off even more.
- Bigger pot means opponents more likely to feel pot commited and more likely to stay around if you do make the flush.
- You may get to see the river for free if you need to.
- Very faint chance you might take down the pot right here.
This is obviously going to be situational. You're never going to do this against a table of rocks, and you don't want to commit any subtantial portion of your stack to a prospective hand early. But when the blinds are low compared to your stack size this might be a good way to pick up extra chips cheaply.
Any thoughts?