To weak with middle set vs tight ABC player?

[MVicuna]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="666666">5 folds</font>, Hero checks,

Flop: (3.33 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Nobody showed an preflop agression so I can't assume this flop hit anyone so no slow play.

Turn: (3.16 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

I now have a decision. Both UTG+1 and MP1 are 'tight' passive players who wouldn't raise TT/JJ preflop and may or may not raise the flop with them. They would never raise the turn on a semi-bluff or with out TP or better. Are enough of hands he has here that I beat or suckout on enough in my favor I can raise here? Yes, their hand selections are really that narrow that I'm 100% sure he has jacks or better.

River: (9.16 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: 11.16 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 11.16 BB, between Hero and MP1.</font>

I call for the times he has hands like AJ/TJ/AA/KK/KJ, vs the times he has hands like JJ/TT/QJ/QQ/Q9.

[MoDOH]

Raise the turn! If you get reraised then it´s time to worry about being behind. Wouldn´t UTG+1 raise with JJ on the flop if he had that? same goes for QQ... No you must raise in this position as you are most likely ahead and if you are behind to a straight you have plenty of outs to catch up by the river. But most importantly you must raise to punish the gutshotsdraws/flushdraws being out there...
I raise this 100 % of the time...

On the river I would go check call though...

[Jonny Melon]

Not too weak -- WAY too weak.
1) Raise this hand pre-flop w/ 2 limpers. Your pot equity w/ 88 more than justifies it.

2) Do you honestly think you're opponent has put you on a set? Look at the play going into the turn raise from your opponent's perspective-- there is no reason for your opponent to believe TPTK isn't good here. And why would they? Yes, you may be behind, but you are far more often ahead.

[bakku]

You need to 3-bet the turn here. I'd also raise PF.

[MVicuna]

Hi,

1) I raise this in position every time or open raise with it. Out of position against 2 tight EP limpers I'm not that thrilled with it. My cutoff is Tens vs tight EP limpers from the blinds.

2) I think he has me on a non-top pair or a draw and was waiting till the turn to make his raise. I know the hands he will limp with in EP and raise with on the turn and its the very narrow range of hands I listed in my original post.

Thanks,
MarkV.

[TheHip41]

Raise pre flop Re raise the turn. Looks like you got rivered.

[Grisgra]

I doubt his pot-equity against two tight limpers is 33% with 88. Very much. My cutoff for raising from the BB with a pocket pair would be what he said he uses, TT. 88 just isn't a power-hand where he was, IMHO.

That said, I don't see why you don't raise the turn. If these guys are that tight re limping, I'm doubtful that either has Q9, which is a pretty crappy starting hand. JT and up is much more likely.

Guessing you got screwed on the river, though.

[MVicuna]

Hi,

I assume UTG+1 folds his flush draw or hand with out a Q and MP1 shows KK.

After a few more showdowns with MP1 he did this every time. Not raise in EP with a strong hand and call a bet infront of him on the flop and then raise the turn with TP or better.

This burned him a few orbits later with QQ when I get to complete my SB with J6s and flop 2 pair and I 3 bet him on the turn after seeing how he played this hand.

Thanks,
MarkV.

[MrHorace]

Bakku, I agreed w/Mark that raising 88 in the BB is a poor positional play. You are definitely more experienced than myself, but I agree w/Mark that the TT is a good cutoff to raise with in this situation.
Can you help me understand the 88 raising? One other thing, since it is a medium pair, you want more players rather than fewer, right?
On the turn, definitely reraise.
Thanks

[SnakeRat]

Raising 88 preflop here would allow you to take down a ton of flops just by betting out vs tight ABC types.

[MrHorace]

You were lucky this time, eh. I think when you flop a set you should play it very fast until someone demonstrates strength. Reraising the turn, or is it raising the turn, would've told you a lot, and might have gotten your drawing opponents to fold.

[MVicuna]

Hi,

They are not folding draws except maybe an inside str8 draw on the turn for a 3 bet.

I do think I was lucky to avoid the suckout though.

Thanks,
MarkV.