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adios
09-01-2004, 05:09 PM
Note the following:

• Kerry campaign lawyer Bob Bauer and Democratic National Committee counsel Joe Sandler also represent 527s -- not illegal, but doesn't it deserve a little scrutiny?

• Jim Jordan, John Kerry's campaign manager until last November, works for three of the 527s.

• Harold Ickes, an executive committee member of the Democratic National Committee, heads the Media Fund.

• Bill Richardson simultaneously chaired the Democrats' national convention and a 527.

• Michael Meehan became Kerry's spokesman after running NARAL Pro-Choice America's "soft money" programs.

• Zack Exley went from being a MoveOn.org executive to the Kerry campaign.

This is proof that John Kerry is directing Democratic 527 groups to smear Bush at least that's the reasoning of Kerry. Haven't heard of Bush hiring lawyers to intimidate TV stattions to not play the 527 ads against Bush.

Swift Boats and Double Standards (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50985-2004Aug31.html)

Swift Boats and Double Standards
Why aren't the media scrutinizing lawyers and advisers to Kerry?

By Benjamin L. Ginsberg
Wednesday, September 1, 2004; Page A19

Think you're getting unbiased, balanced coverage of politics? Or is there a double standard in the way the media treat Republicans and Democrats, liberals and conservatives? My recent visit to the center of a media storm suggests there is. Consider this:

A $500,000 ad buy made by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth brings searing media scrutiny and "proof" of illegal coordination based on a lawyer (me) representing both the Bush-Cheney campaign and the Swift Boat Veterans; on an accountant working for Tom DeLay's political action committee; and on a $200,000 contributor to the group who is not a major donor to Bush-Cheney 2004 but who does know Karl Rove.

Meanwhile, the media give practically no scrutiny to a $63 million, five-month, negative-ad buy done by Democratic "527" groups (the Media Fund, MoveOn.org and others) with a revolving door of connections to the Kerry campaign. Consider:

• Kerry campaign lawyer Bob Bauer and Democratic National Committee counsel Joe Sandler also represent 527s -- not illegal, but doesn't it deserve a little scrutiny?

• Jim Jordan, John Kerry's campaign manager until last November, works for three of the 527s.

• Harold Ickes, an executive committee member of the Democratic National Committee, heads the Media Fund.

• Bill Richardson simultaneously chaired the Democrats' national convention and a 527.

• Michael Meehan became Kerry's spokesman after running NARAL Pro-Choice America's "soft money" programs.

• Zack Exley went from being a MoveOn.org executive to the Kerry campaign.

The coordination law prohibits individuals from "using or conveying" information on the private "plans, needs or projects" of a campaign to a 527 or vice versa. If the media can scrutinize my legal work, which doesn't even fall under the anti-coordination rules, why can't they scrutinize these Democrats with equal diligence?

Bob Perry has been criticized and scrutinized for giving $200,000 to the group questioning Kerry's claims about his Vietnam service and for knowing Rove. But does anyone in the media see a double standard in the lack of reporting on the far more direct connections among major Kerry-Edwards fundraisers who have contributed to their 527s? These include:

• Fred Baron, chairman of Kerry Victory 2004, who gave $50,000 to Richardson's 527.

• Stephen Bing, John Edwards's top donor, who contributed $8 million to 527s.

• Susie Buell, Kerry vice chairman, who raised more than $100,000 for the campaign and gave more than $1 million to 527s.

• Lewis Cullman, a major DNC donor who raised more than $100,000 for the Democratic Party and gave $1.65 million to 527s.

The point isn't that they -- any more than Bob Perry -- have done anything illegal or improper. But the connections of these Democratic donors are far more direct than Perry's -- and there's been no similar media scrutiny for ad buys 126 times greater than the one Perry helped fund. If the media clamor that President Bush renounce the $500,000 Swift boat ad is fair, how many reporters asked Kerry whether he would request his 527s to cease their $63 million in negative ads? Also, wouldn't an unbiased press corps have gotten John Edwards to release his list of major fundraisers, as the Bush-Cheney campaign voluntarily did?

When the Bush-Cheney campaign filed a detailed, 70-page complaint detailing illegal coordination by Democrats, the move produced 14 news articles, with no follow-up. When the Kerry campaign filed an unsupportable charge of coordination about the Swift boat ads, there were 74 articles, and the pack swarmed.

Perhaps the reason is that, politically and culturally, reporters are far from representative of the voters or politicians they claim to cover objectively and fairly, as shown in a study by the Pew Research Center. That study concluded that "journalists at national and local news organizations are notably different from the general public in their ideology and attitudes toward political and social issues. . . . [N]ews people, especially national journalists, are more liberal, and far less conservative, than the general public. . . . About a third of national journalists (34 percent) . . . describe themselves as liberals; that compares with 19 percent of the public. . . . Moreover, there is a relatively small number of conservatives at national and local news organizations. Just 7 percent of national news people . . . describe themselves as conservatives, compared with a third of all Americans."

In a 50-50 nation, how do the media square this imbalance with the claim of being objective, fair and nonpartisan? The double standard in reporting on 527s suggests that some of the withering scrutiny visited on the Swift boat veterans should be directed inward.

vulturesrow
09-01-2004, 05:13 PM
Adios,

Good luck. I brought these points up a while back and for the most part got shouted down or ignored.

Chris

elwoodblues
09-01-2004, 11:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This is proof that John Kerry is directing Democratic 527 groups to smear Bush at least that's the reasoning of Kerry

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your point that the connections between Bush and Swifties are tenuous, but you are missing a key element to your conclusion that Kerry is directing 527s to smear Bush. See, your response (and Bush's) is once again not responding to the real dispute. Kerry's problem with the ads isn't that they come from 527s. It's that they are smearing him.

Kerry says to Bush --- you should condemn these smear ads. Bush responds with all ads by 527s are bad instead of smear ads are bad.

Another straw man argument. You're really on a roll these days. Let me guess your favorite Wizard of Oz character --- my bet is that it's another straw man.

Jimbo
09-01-2004, 11:48 PM
Kerry says to Bush --- you should condemn these smear ads. Bush responds with all ads by 527s are bad instead of smear ads are bad.


Just because President Bush will not become a talking head for Senator Kerry is no reason not to believe the swift boat veterans.

elwoodblues
09-01-2004, 11:54 PM
Apparently I wasn't clear enough in my original response. Bush and Adios have distorted Kerry's position to make it seem like he is being hypocritical. They have suggested that Kerry's argument against the swifties stems from their 527 status. It doesn't. It stems from their smearing tactics. Now Adios is suggesting the Kerry is wrong, by Kerry's own standards (as defined by Bush) because he has ties to 527s.

Jimbo
09-02-2004, 12:02 AM
No Elwood you were clear but my reply to you was somewhat circumspect. I was implying that Bush might not consider the swiftboat ads as smears but having some basis in truth. Although he may not like that kind of "help" therefore he expressed his displeasure at all 527's.

As far as kerry you are blinded by your hate of President Bush. It should be obvious that Kerry employs the usage of 527's that smear Bush but derides those (see Swiftboat Vets) that (according to him) smear his image.

Jimbo

elwoodblues
09-02-2004, 12:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
As far as kerry you are blinded by your hate of President Bush. It should be obvious that Kerry employs the usage of 527's that smear Bush but derides those (see Swiftboat Vets) that (according to him) smear his image

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I am blinded by hatred.

Which 527 ads smearing Bush are you referring to?

Stu Pidasso
09-02-2004, 03:33 AM
1)Kerry was the one who made his military record a campaign issue.

2)Since it is a campaign issue it can be legitimately attacked as such.

3)Kerry has lost a lot of credibilty because he refuses to sign a form 180 so all his records can be released.

4)Anyone who thinks that right wing 527s are not coordinating with the Bush campaign is a fool.

5)Anyone who thinks that left wing 527s are not coordinating with the Kerry campaign is also a fool.

6)This country is obviously full of fools as evidenced by the two people we chose to run for president in Ott 4.

Stu

adios
09-02-2004, 07:21 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with your point that the connections between Bush and Swifties are tenuous, but you are missing a key element to your conclusion that Kerry is directing 527s to smear Bush.

[/ QUOTE ]

No actually I didn't make that conclusion in my statement. I gave an example of how "Kerry reasoning" arrives at that conclusion.

Charges have been made that Ginsburg's participation is a "smoking" gun supporting Kerry's smear allegations regarding Bush ie that Bush is directing the Swift Boat veterans in a smear campaign against Kerry. I offered the other side of that viewpoint from Ginsburg himself ie that it is not proof that Bush is directing the smear campaign. My understanding is that if Bush is directing the Swift Boat Vets then their current 527 status would change and they would have to pull their ads.

Let's start another thread about 527 ads and the informational content in them and how they bring forth in depth analysis and discussion of the relevant issues in the campaign.

adios
09-02-2004, 07:30 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Now Adios is suggesting the Kerry is wrong, by Kerry's own standards (as defined by Bush) because he has ties to 527s.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, no, no. Kerry supporters have offered up Ginsburg as proof that Bush is directing the Swift Boat veterans which to my understanding would be in violation of campaign election laws thus voiding the current Swift Boat vets 527 status which would result in getting their ads pulled.