Perefctly Played?

I played 15 - 30 Holdem at the TAJ on tuesday evening. I played real good like, I think. I played the following hand perfectly. Well I thought I played it perfectly but I'm not sure now. What thinks you?


First in Early Position (EP) raises (Tight aggressive player). Folded to me, 2 from button. My hand T,T. I three bet and was called by EP. We took the flop Heads-up. The flop came A,A,T. You may not think that this hand can be played wrong but let's see. EP checks, I bet and was called. Turn : 3, (suit not important). EP checks, I bet, EP raises, I reraise, EP reraises, I call. River: off suit 9. EP bets, I raise, EP calls. I win. E,P has A,K as exepected. Comments, please.


Vince

Don't see anything wrong with your play. You mentioned EP was tight-aggressive, so my only fear would of been quad A's, which is very rare. EP raising with A,T is highly unlikely.


I would of played the same as you did.


Nice win.

You should fold pre-flop. Otherwise, fine.


Dan Z.

FWIW your opponent possibilities are:


AA = 1 ways

AT = 2 ways

AK = 8 ways

AQ = 8 ways

AJs = 2 ways


You're a big favorite after the flop. Pre-flop I don't fold TT in the situation described especially if my opponent will re-raise with an overpair. Therefore I like the 3 bet pre-flop. You could have hit it again on the turn as your opponent is totally committed to the pot now as he might have checked and called on the river especially if a Q or J hit the board. So you get the extra money in on the turn when you're a big favorite.

Perfect play is in the eyes of the beholder.


I play perfectly imperfect.


Is perefctly a word? hmm.......

I think the only way you could have frigged this hand up is by calling before the flop or checking the flop. After you re-raised the turn, it was decided that you were going to make exactly six big bets on the turn and river. The only difference was whether it would be five on the turn and one on the river or four on the turn and two on the river. Also, you misspelled "perfectly" so I can only give you a 9.6.

I agree. But at what point do you start to worry about ATs or AA? I think that if EP 3-bets the river, Vince has to just call.

One more thought:


Your opponent WAY overplayed his hand. He may not be so tight and aggressive after all.


Dan Z.

Perfect Play - play that contains no mistakes.


Playing Well - play that induces (causes/makes/forces?) your opponents to make mistakes.


Do you think that's what Mason is saying?

A few questions you have to consider:


Will EP 4-bet the turn without an ace? I think not (and slim chance that he has AA or AT).

If you 5-bet him, will he fold? Nope again.

If you 5-bet him, will he 6-bet with trips? Nope the third.

If you 5-bet him, and he does have AA or AT and 6-bets, will it be more costly than waiting to raise on river? Nope.


The decisive questions:


1) If you 5-bet him, and he calls, is there a realistic chance that he will bet the river with trips? If you think the answer might be yes, then go ahead and 5-bet him on turn, and hope that you can raise him again on river (unless a K or Q comes down) and thus gain an additional big bet compared to just calling on turn.


2) On the other hand, if you somehow believe that smooth-calling might make your opponent 3-bet you on river with trips, then just smooth-call (especially when he is hyper-aggressive and will 4-bet without trips and fold if you 5-bet).


But since neither of these two extra-money situations (betting out after getting 5-bet and 3-betting after you smooth-call) is too likely, it doesn´t matter much which option you choose, but what probably favours smooth-calling is that you save a big bet if the river brings a dangerous card (K, Q, or case A) and you decide to just call rather than risk getting 3-bet.

Late round raises and reraises supposedly mean something in the hands of a good player. If they contradict the early round read of that player you are entitled to raise one more time late, than you would usually. If this had been 80-160 with this much action, tens full would have been beat.

played well against a decent player but against a very good player it was overplayed as a loser for sure. how can you think you played anything perfectly as you never get any of david's questions right.:):):)

By aces full? But aren't the bigger games more aggessive? You could still be beating AK.


Please clarify.

Of course, if the antihero three-bets the river, I'll make the crying call. There's no way I could make a laydown like that in a HU pot and I'm pretty sure I don't want to start. Also, the more I think about it, the more I like five-betting the turn. A queen or a jack could make my opponent check and call or maybe even make me puss out and check the river.

I totally disagree! Do you actually put this guy on A-10,A-3,OR A-9? This is a monster flop for a pre flop raiser with action. No other paint, I would put in at least one more raise. David what are you smoking?

These are reads so trivial, that any competent player at or above 5-10 should make them.


With this much action, Vince has to fear aces. The AK went nuts - he should be checking and calling once Vince shows any strength at all.


Let's look at a chart of Vince's hands, and the best way to play against them -


AQs - a pipe dream but possible. Get the chips in. 1 possible way.

TT - draw to river, fold with no improvement. 3 ways.

AK - who cares? - don;t waste time betting, just get to the end - 3 ways

Anything else - essentially a bluff. Let Vince bluff. KK might stand a raise, but there's only one of those, so let Vince fire and slowplay.


That's all there is to this hand. Once Vince shows any strngth, UTG should slowplay AK and just call it down. Period. Only a river A or K changes that, or a rinning pair on turn and river.


Only the relative strength of a hand matters, and AK is nothing to sing about here.


Dan Z.

First of all I've read too many posts on this forum where the "tight aggressive" player turned out to be a lot looser than I would consider a "tight aggressive" player to be. Second of all it is $15-30 and not $80-160 so Vince's opponent probably isn't thinking too deeply. Third it does depend on what he thinks of Vince. I agree with your point that this board and the action that Vince put in limits the hands he, Vince, could have.

What these guys agree with you. Get back here you perfect player I will show you what perfect play is all about. All the best stay well have fun and destroy A.C.

Tom,


No chance my opponent had A,Q or AJ when she four bet.


Vince

Such a "perfect" answer. I have no response.


Vince

Hosh,


See you next week. Say hello to the boss. Say hello to Mason. Tell Sklansky I'm after him and his silly EV thread.


Vince

Good analysis.


vince

"If this had been 80-160 with this much action, tens full would have been beat."


This is absolutely wrong! I don't play 80-160 but I will tell you that if the hand was played as I and my opponent played it then the result would be the same. The only way that Tens full will be beat is if the hand is played differently. There is no way this player raises early position with A,T in an 80 - 160 game. Also I may or someone else may check the flop in 80 - 160 not that betting is incorrect. The only hand this player can have that can beat tens full is quad Aces. With quad Aces a good player will almost always wait until the river to try for multiple bets. No, I think you misread this hand.


Vince