smart move or just really rude??

[trojanFan]

assume a TURBO sng on stars, about 5-6 players left, blinds are starting to get high and you're the BIG STACK.

the blinds go up every 5 minutes, and legally you've got about 20-30 seconds to make a choice when it becomes your turn. naturally, as you're the big stack, larger blinds are to your advantage.

here's the question:
do you stall? obviously, you'll irritate the other players, but it does seem strategically smart. you could take 20-30 seconds to decide to fold your 52o and fewer hands will be played before the blinds go up. if you did this a handful of times, then the shorter stacks could really feel the pressure of the blinds more.

is this just really rude or is it a good play?

(think of it like this...in football, the team with the lead near the end of the game is going to use every possible second off the clock before starting the next play. same with hoops, the leading team will use every possible second of the shot clock when possible. is this the same type of situation?)

all input is welcome!
thanks

[Nick B.]

I am sure if you keep doing it, then somebody will complain to pokerstars and they will most likely do something so that you won't do it again. It is poor poker and really not that big of an advantage to you.

[Phill S]

i find the size of blinds pretty irrelivant anyway.

you do have the obvious problem that you may get absolutely dire cards and the high blinds and aggro little short stacks cut you down pretty quickly.

just play each hand how it comes, and dont stall. im sure its not ethical. im pretty sure its not cool. and probably wont actually give you a huge benefit.

and i hate teams that time waste. if i wanted to watch someone pass around the football (soccer) id ask my younger brother for a kick about.

ill elave ti for you in these terms. would you want one or even two much larger stacks doing it to you. would you like it.

im not a fan of organised religion, but the one message they all share is the one id like to think i live by. do unto others as you would have done unto you.

Phill

[Guernica4000]

I think that from the tone of your post and your attempt to justify your play by using the Football comparison, you have answered your own question. In my opinion it is not good play and I think you'll agree.

[WC64]

What about the prevent defense in football? (as in prevent the win)

I dont think this could give you that big an advantage in the first place and will probably piss off a lot of people in the room (which I guess could have some benefit).

[ilya]

Sure, why not...if you can deal with the hatred this'll provoke. for me, the psychological & political costs outweigh the added EV.

Also, people might get so pissed at you, they'll call your steals next tournament trying to bust you.

[LinusKS]

The difference is in football the team with the better score wins when the time runs out. In poker, the time never runs out. You don't win until you have all the chips.

I'm not sure how much an advantage the big stack has when the blinds are bigger. (It's an interesting question, though.) My gut instinct is that it's not much of an advantage.

Very large blinds do tend to make the outcome more random, though. In other words, they tend to decrease the advantage of better players.

[MEbenhoe]

I agree this idea doesnt really make sense. As the big stack you're often there because you're better than the other players your playing against. So wouldn't you want to keep the blinds smaller in order to decrease the luck factor? I think overall the original poster doesn't have much faith in himself to close out the tourney with his play so hes looking for ploys to close it out.

[ilya]

I think if your stack is HUGE stalling can be advantageous. So huge, I mean, that the rising blinds won't affect you for a while -- but will make the medium/largeish stacks desperate.

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
I think if your stack is HUGE stalling can be advantageous. So huge, I mean, that the rising blinds won't affect you for a while -- but will make the medium/largeish stacks desperate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well hes talking about the turbo SNGs on stars, and that is rarely if ever true in these.

[Dominic]

ill elave ti for you in these terms. would you want one or even two much larger stacks doing it to you. would you like it.

"im not a fan of organised religion, but the one message they all share is the one id like to think i live by. do unto others as you would have done unto you."



I'm sorry, that's so besides the point it's laughable.

It's poker. Not Jesus and Friends.

If the rules allow you to take 30 seconds to make a decision, and it's to your advantage to do so, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong, unfair, illegal, or unethical about it.

Is it unfair when you're on the button and you get to act last? No. That's poker. So is a 30 second rule.

Same thing goes in a tourney if it's down to one or two people until the money...lots of people - pros included - will intentionally slow the game down so they can wait until someone finally busts out. It's within the rules.

Deal with, stop crying about what's right and wrong, and learn how to play strategically sound poker.

[Lori]

the blinds go up every 5 minutes, and legally you've got about 20-30 seconds to make a choice when it becomes your turn. naturally, as you're the big stack, larger blinds are to your advantage.


I stopped reading here.

Lori

[fnurt]

You are completely wrong to assume that stalling is in your self-interest. When others are short-stacked, you WANT more hands to be played. Letting the blinds get incredibly high means nothing if you only play one hand every 5 minutes, because that means only one player has the chance to bust every 5 minutes. Keep the game moving so players have to post their blinds and risk going bust. You have a big stack, so why would you be worried about the blinds coming around to you? Force people to keep paying them by playing fast.

[poboy]

I can see the reasoning here. If you have a large enough stack that the increasing blinds won't put any pressure on you. If a player has T400 chips left and the blinds are 100/200 and are about to go up. Why give him another rotation to catch some good cards, when just waiting a few more seconds will put him all-in the next time the blinds hit him. I know when I'm short stacked I want the other players to hurry up so that I don't get hit with a bigger blind. As for the others calling this unethical, this is poker not church so quit whining you pussies. Is it rude, sure but who cares. Are you trying to make money or friends?

[VarlosZ]

[ QUOTE ]
If the rules allow you to take 30 seconds to make a decision, and it's to your advantage to do so, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong, unfair, illegal, or unethical about it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree. I believe that you can be within the rules at a poker table and still act unethically. Say there was a talented Jewish player at your table, and you figured you could throw him off his game by making fun of holocaust victims. It's within the rules, but surely you have an obligation not to be cruel.

The OP's question isn't quite as obvious, but I still think it's shady. You're given 30 seconds to act so you can think about your play, answer a ringing phone, or even make an opponent think that you do have to think about your play. Using your time to manipulate the blind structure is pretty clearly an abuse, I think.

Stalling like this is an easy thing to rationalize (as you can see from this thread) and, taken alone, maybe this is small fries. On the other hand, most people wouldn't do it, as it's just one step on the long road to becoming an ass-hole.

[Lori]

Using your time to manipulate the blind structure is pretty clearly an abuse, I think.

and certainly using it to help your opponents like this guy suggests is collusion.

Lori

[ccartman2]

I can see it once in a while, in this circumstance. Now playing this way every time it's your turn to act doesn't seem very smart and you certainly wouldn't make any friends that way.

[VarlosZ]

I said:
[ QUOTE ]
Using your time to manipulate the blind structure is pretty clearly an abuse, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]
I should explain why I think this is so.

The other players didn't sign up for this "tactic." The large majority put their money into the prize pool with the expectation that this sort of thing would not be done. Then to turn around and take advantage of the fact that an anti-stalling rule would be 100% unenforceable amounts to a con; they agreed to play poker with you with certain (reasonable) expectations, and then you spring this on them. It's a bait & switch. It's the online equivalent of only chopping the blinds when you have junk in a brick & mortar game.

(But, hey, we're here to make money not friends, so I guess it's ok.)

[Dominic]

First of all, there IS an anti-stalling block in the game - it's called the 30-second rule. If I want to use the 30 seconds to stall, feed my cat, take a leak, whatever...I can...and if u think I'm an [censored] for doing so...I don't really care.

When I play poker, I do it to win money...and if stalling will get u off your game, that's not only allowable, it's PART of the game!

The whole Jewish-holocaust thing the one guy mentioned is silly, because you CAN be kicked off an online site (or out of a B&M casino) for saying offensive things. But the online or B&M casino cannot kick you out for using all of the time allotted for you to make a decision.

Sorry if you don't agree with this, but life ain't all peaches a cream!

[Michael Davis]

"the blinds go up every 5 minutes, and legally you've got about 20-30 seconds to make a choice when it becomes your turn. naturally, as you're the big stack, larger blinds are to your advantage."

This statement, I would like to point out, comes from a USC-affiliated poster.

-Michael

[LinusKS]

Just because a player is all-in on the blinds doesn't mean he will lose. In fact, when the blinds are very high, the short stack has a better chance of doubling up than when the blinds are low.

Put it this way - if you have a good hand and you have 400T, wouldn't you rather the blinds were 200/400 than 10/15?

Or look at it like this - if you're the big stack, you have zero fold equity when the short stack is in the blinds. You can't "outplay" him. If you do decide to call him with a mediocre hand, his chances of doubling are somewhere around 50%.

If the short stack gets lucky a couple of times, he can quickly quadruple up. This is harder to do when the blinds are smaller.

[poboy]

What you are saying is true. However a person's chances of getting lucky go up if they are given multiple chances. In basketball terms let's say I can make a basket 30% of the time. If you let me shoot a basketball 5 times and if I hit one you'll give me $100 I will probably hit at least one of them, the odds are in my favor. If I'm given just one chance the odds are now in your favor. As for folding equity , when someone is down to that short of a stack(1 or 2 BB's) you don't have any folding equity to begin with. He is in desperation mode and should call with anything. He has nothing to gain by folding, saving himself 1 BB or less should not be an option for him at that point.