PF CC Survey

[MicroBob]

Based on some comments from my recent HH's I'm thinking of tightening up here considerably.

I also think this is a worthwhile discussion because there seems to be quite a gap in how many of us view these hands (most fall somewhere around DEFINITELY playable or DEFINITELY NOT playable).


Some examples that I would like input on: (assume typical 10-handed Party 2/4 or 3/6 with no reads)

UTG raises, all 6 players cold-call (no one has folded yet)
you:
1. 65s on button
2. K2s on button
3. Q8s on button
4. 22 on button


UTG raises, next 3 players cold-call,
you:
5. MP with 22
6. MP with 98s

UTG raises, UTG+1 re-raises, UTG+2 caps, MP calls
you:
7. MP with 99
8. MP with JTs
9. MP with 65s
10. MP with A6s


FWIW - The way I currently play I would call each of these except for #9.


But I can't seem to locate any strong evidence to support my long-held ideas that it is okay to cold-call with PP or suited-connectors if the pot is multi-way enough. So I'm trying to decide if I want to tighten WAY up on these.


I'm curious what others have to say about these.

[MarkD]

This is quick and I'm tired so I reserve the right to change my answers but here is my first impression.

UTG raises, all 6 players cold-call (no one has folded yet)
you:
1. 65s on button - Call (this may be close)
2. K2s on button - Fold (this may be close)
3. Q8s on button - Fold (Q9s may be close
4. 22 on button - Call

UTG raises, next 3 players cold-call,
you:
5. MP with 22 - call
6. MP with 98s - fold (this may be close)

UTG raises, UTG+1 re-raises, UTG+2 caps, MP calls
you:
7. MP with 99 - fold
8. MP with JTs - fold
9. MP with 65s - fold
10. MP with A6s - fold

[Michael Davis]

I call 1, 4, 5, and 6. Playing any of 7-10 is complete suicide.

-Michael

[bakku]

I call 1,4,5,6 for sure. 2,3 could go either way I really don't know but it's probably close. 7-10 are easy easy easy folds. You should only be calling with AA/KK and maybe QQ there.

[jediael]

1,4,5 call
6 close, maybe call?

everything else: fold

[jediael]

nt

[balkii]

1,4 and maybe 3, call.

5, maybe 6.

7 thru 10 you have got to be kidding me. Anyone who pays 4 bets cold for any of these hands (99, notsomuch, but its still bad) gets a note in my book. A6s, good lord!

[Chris Daddy Cool]

anybody who coldcalls 7-10 deserves to get peed on.

[Michael Davis]

Hmm...I'm going to coldcall more. I usually have to pay a lot more than $12 for that.

-Michael

[John Biggs]

N/M

[MicroBob]

No I Don't!!!!
And anyway, I'm not that kind of guy so take your sick, perverted ideas elsewhere if you please.


How about #'s 7-10 with:
UTG raises, UTG+1 re-raises, UTG+2 caps, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, LP1 and CO fold,
you are on the button with each of the previous hands (7 through 10)

Would it make a difference if you were playing these at a B&M and saw that the EP guys were going to call the cap?? If so then go ahead and include that information (or not).


OR change the scenario to being in the BB with each of the hands (so you're only calling 3-cold for the cap).


or:

4 limpers and you have each of these in MP and limp.
fold to button who raises, UTG re-raises, UTG+1 caps (hey, it's Party, anything's possible), next two guys fold and call (or maybe call and call, whatever you like if it makes a difference for you)
it comes back to you capped. Call 3-cold here in MP??


Sorry for getting weird and asking odd questions.
I truly am curious where some of you guys stand here.


Anyway, thanks so far for the responses. Very interesting.

FWIW - In some of these situations I might almost prefer JTs or Axs over JJ (or maybe even QQ).

[chesspain]

I'ld call 1,4,5. Everything else goes into the muck.

[John Biggs]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW - In some of these situations I might almost prefer JTs or Axs over JJ (or maybe even QQ).

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you ever prefer a suited drawing hand over a big pair? Even if you think you are up against an overpair, you can still angle for a set.

Maybe just another sick joke on your part?!?

[MicroBob]

6 or 7-way pot that's been raised or capped or whatever I suspect JTs or Axs can take a bigger pot a greater majority of the time then JJ....
but I did say "might almost prefer".


Since we don't get to choose our pre-flop cards it doesn't exactly matter what I would prefer to have anyway.

What matters is if and where any of these hands are +EV to actually see a flop.


Thanks again for the responses gang (all except for that pee-ing bit....ewwwwww).

[sfer]

For easy interpretation, I'll add my comments to your text:

UTG raises, all 6 players cold-call (no one has folded yet)
you:
1. 65s on button
Fold
2. K2s on button
Fold
3. Q8s on button
Fold
4. 22 on button
Call


UTG raises, next 3 players cold-call,
you:
5. MP with 22
Call
6. MP with 98s
Fold

UTG raises, UTG+1 re-raises, UTG+2 caps, MP calls
you:
7. MP with 99
Fold
8. MP with JTs
Fold
9. MP with 65s
Fold
10. MP with A6s
Fold

I never coldcall with suited connectors.

[MaxPower]

UTG raises, all 6 players cold-call (no one has folded yet)
you:
1. 65s on button

I don't think it matters much.

2. K2s on button

Fold but I think its close.

3. Q8s on button

Fold but I think its close.

4. 22 on button

Call.

UTG raises, next 3 players cold-call,
you:
5. MP with 22

Call

6. MP with 98s

Call but I think its close.

UTG raises, UTG+1 re-raises, UTG+2 caps, MP calls
you:
7. MP with 99

Fold

8. MP with JTs

Fold

9. MP with 65s

Fold

10. MP with A6s

Fold


And I don't play particularly tight.

[Victor]

I would fold 7-10 and 3.

[dfscott]

UTG raises, all 6 players cold-call (no one has folded yet)
you:
1. 65s on button - Call
2. K2s on button - Fold
3. Q8s on button - Borderline, but probably fold
4. 22 on button - Call

UTG raises, next 3 players cold-call,
you:
5. MP with 22 - Call
6. MP with 98s - Call

UTG raises, UTG+1 re-raises, UTG+2 caps, MP calls
you:
7. MP with 99 - Fold
8. MP with JTs - Fold
9. MP with 65s - Fold
10. MP with A6s - Fold

[Rico Suave]

Sfer:

ditto

--Rico

[Vazh]

[ QUOTE ]
I never coldcall with suited connectors.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was starting to think I was the only one.

[Keats13]

I tend to really tighten up to a raise, particularly an EP raise.

The only definite call here for me is #4.

#5 is close, depending on my guess of the likelihood of additonal cold-callers and a re-raise. Cold-calling and then having it end up as a 4- or 5-way cap would kind of suck.

Most of the hands listed rely on implied odds, and your implied odds tend to suck when you have to put in 2 bets pre-flop.

Am I being way too tight here?

[MAxx]

I play number 4 and 5 only. The rest I don't consider. (22's)

[MicroBob]

Thanks for the input guys.

I really wish I had made 7-10 somewhat more tempting.
I just wanted to see if there is a situation where you would call a CAP (or 3-bets more from the BB or after already calling) with any of these.

Perhaps if it was capped 5 ways or something after you had already put in 1-bet....you might cold-call the next 3 bets.

Obviously you are not losing much (except for some wild variance) by taking a pass on any of these IF indeed any of them actually are +EV.

With all the flaws in my game, I suspect I would be wise to take a pass on more of these.
Which is what I will definitely be doing in the future.


Again, I'm not a particularly loose player PF....and these type of cold-call situations have never come up very frequently for me. My CC% is usually between 0.5 and 0.7%
I just don't want to give you guys the idea that I'm some sort of weird CC'ing maniac because I honestly don't think I am.


I will continue to play 98s for 2-bets cold with 4 or 5 players in though.

Someone in a previous mentioned that many of you would call a raise from the BB with this if there were enough players in....and cold-calling with multiple players from MP or LP obviously gives you better position.

Anyway, I'm just not convinced that keeping this hand is such a bad play (or that ditching it is such a great play).


Again - thanks for all the feedback guys.
Interesting to see the number of players who think the suited-connectors are just bad bad news on these as well as those who think it's okay to go for it.