Would you ever lay the QQ down??

15/30 10 handed


UTG a player who is quite tight pre-flop and definitely postflop(the tightest I've ever seen), and who NEVER bluffs or semi-bluffs and always has a hand to showdown if he stays, raises. In 30 hours of playing with him I haven't seen him step out of line once, nor have we been heads up many times.


Folded to me on the button with QdQc I 3 bet blinds folds, he just calls. I don't know him well enough if heads up with KK or AA whether he would 4 bet I wish I knew!


Flop comes 6d6c4c


He bets, I raise, I want to know if he really has AA or KK or whether he has QQ,JJ,AK ( I don't put him on anythingelse as he is very tight UTG). He 3 Bets now I'm really not so sure I am good(his postflop play is inconsistent with AK) I call. Now I'm thinking a good chance I am beat.


The turn comes Qh he bets, of course I raise and he calls my turn bet as well as my river bet after a 2s is the river and I take it down.


After the hand was done he mucked his cards, I said what did you have AA KK?? I was so sure. He sits out and walks away from the table.


I looked at a hand history he had 10c10h.


The reason why I post this is I was contemplating folding on the turn or river because he was so tight if I didn't improve. If an A or K hit hit and he bet I would definitely have folded.


My read was so off on this hand, I gave him way more credit than I should have. If I really had feared AA or KK should I just have check called all the way?


Against the ultra tight players like him with QQ in this situation what should be my play? check/call or play exactly as I did and possibly slowdown check behind him on the turn? and then call the river. Or are there just no players tight enough for this passivity to be correct.

I presume this was online. Maybe he wasn't the tightwad you thought he had.


At least you played it right.

"I looked at a hand history he had 10c10h."


I've never said one bad word about online poker or even had a bad thought. A game is a game and rules are rules and the house makes money and what's the dif. But if I was ever going to say that something is wrong just because it's wrong and no other reason, I'd say it's wrong, in poker, to be able to find out what this guy's hand was.


Tommy

I totally agree with you that its a really bad thing for the game to ask the dealer to see the callers cards on the river, however it IS in the game so i guess online poker sites have to include it. Then again in live poker, you can shoot your hand into the muck asap too /images/smile.gif

Hi Jordan- In the last month, I've had one 10-20 "extremely tight" player lay down QQ vs. my AA on the turn when I raised it. There were no Aces on board in this case. The guy turned the cards face up and said: "Well, I guess these are not good" and then tossed em in the muck. I've laid down the hand several times in the last 3 months and I've seen other players lay it down as well. So, the answer to your post title is "YES"...I can lay it down and it happens more than you think. BUT NOT WITH THAT BOARD. In the hand under discussion, when your opponent doesn't 4 bet btf, I cannot put him on KK or AA, so I assume my QQ is good until proven otherwise. Typically, when your opponent has KK or AA they will bet it to the max btf. You are experiencing MUB (monsters-under-the-bed) syndrome when you think you are beat just because someone 3 bets a rag flop. Remember, you are on the button and could be calling with a lesser hand than his 10,10 simply because you have position. He wants to see if his 10s are good so he keeps firing. Many people would 4 bet in your spot with that flop. On the turn, since he doesn't 3 bet, he tells you that he cannot beat a Q and he doesn't like his hand much anymore. If he is so tight and such a good player, it's he who should lay down the hand here! Overall, I think you played it fine except for the MUB thinking. From your description of this guy, I suspect that if an A or K appeared on the turn he would bet out again and hope that you fold. Since I don't know him, I cannot comment on my likely play at that point. Vs. some players, I lay it down NOW but vs. others I am there for the showdown. You learned an important lesson here. Overestimating your opponents is as dangerous as underestimating them. Good luck. LGPG, Babe

hi,


you can ask pp and they will tell you the hand even if they dont call or only if they don call. anyways, please explain to me how hand history works. thanks

"I looked at a hand history he had 10c10h"


I'm with Tommy, seems wrong to be able to see his hand. Is this at Paradise? I've never noticed that you can see mucked hands in the PP histories.


e

An excellent post. One of my tendencies (along with other posters) is to overestimate what people have and overestimate their skill levels.


Keep Mr. P out of the house!