KK hand

Tight-passive(by LA standards) 15-30 game, fluctuating from 6-8 handed. After one deal around, I get black Kings in the SB. UTG limps(loose female, button limps(solid young player), I raise, BB calls.


Flop:


9h8h7d


I bet, BB folds, UTG calls, button calls.


Turn:


9h8h7d4d


I bet, UTG calls, button raises.


What is my play here?


DN

I would have checked on the flop, but having played the way you did, I would call it down.


Maybe you're beat, but you're getting 7.5 to 1.


Call.

I'm having a hard time with this hand.If you just played one round I wonder what the {solid player]Button thinks you have?Is he an ABC player?I dont think so because this flop would have missed him completely Unless he flopped a set.Would he have limped in with a hand like Ad8d?Idon't think so.How about5/6 Maybe,But I think he floped a set,and I think he told you he's got you beat,Plus the UTG proubly has a straight,or flush draw I now think It's a clear FOLD.The thing that bothers me is why the button {if he floped a set]did not raise the flop making draws pay?It could be he wanted to see what the turn brought.Sure! It's a clear fold.What did he have?

This is a tough hand play, at least for me. With only two other opponents, I vote for check-calling the river; if you are lucky you are drawing live (button has two pair or a set); but there is the possibility that you are drawing dead (JT for the nut straight), which might explain his flat call on the flop.


If action heats up on the river between the two other players and you still have just an overpair, get rid of those kings, imo.

I forgot to mention the J/10suited that a kind of solid player might play on the button .Just another reason to fold.

I would call down unless the river card is very scary.


You have 8 outs to beat two pair, 2 outs to beat a set, and may be ahead of a hand like 10-9 of diamonds.

DN,


Interesting hand. I don't think that the button has a set else he would have raised pre-flop. That makes the only hand that you are drawing dead to a flopped straight, which is a real possibility. The other hands he could have you either beat (like a big draw perhaps with a pair)or have reasonable outs to (like 2-pair).


Given the size of the pot and the fact that UTG will probably also call the turn raise I would probably call the button down. But I think that this is a very close decision and you are likely beat.


-- Manzanita

Two more things:(1)I would muck the hand Quietly... Don't let anyone know that you made a big[I don't think it's big]Laydown.Otherwise you will inviting trouble in the future..(2)Observe closely what hands the players had.If the hands are not shown ask the button [in privite]what he had.More things to consitter:If the Lady has a flush or straight draw then if your call makes it beter for her ,then it stands to reason it makes if worse for you.PLUSSSssIf your drawing dead to two big bets I think it's a clear fold...Exsuse my spelling..

I always muck quietly, as I did in this case. I could not figure out what the button had, and put him on either a set or two pair. Had it been heads-up, I would have called. The river brought the 9d(board 9h8h7d4d9d), and UTG checked and called the buttons bet. The button said "You got me, flush draw/straight draw", which leads me to believe he had something like QTh. UTG turned over A7o for a pair of sevens while saying "I thought you were on a draw" and rakes the pot.


I've been running a bit cold this month which, as much as I try to fight it, makes me play on the weak-tight side. Oh well, live and learn. Thanks for the comments, guys.


DN


Catsclaw, are you recommending a check-call strategy? Or a check-raise on the flop and lead on the turn? Perhaps a check-raise on the flop would have allowed me get rid of UTG and call down the button heads-up.

I still think you made the right play.

Calling on the turn, and unless a real scare card comes on the river, calling there as well.


That's what I meant.

"I get black Kings in the SB. UTG limps(loose female, button limps(solid young player), I raise, BB calls. Flop: 9h8h7d"


didnt you read? we're folding overpairs on middle card coordinated flops and folding black kings preflop no matter what.


stop playing so sloppy. and find some better games too. sheesh.

Maybe I'm just easy to trap, but I would be quicker to put the button on a picked up diamond draw (maybe a pair or T with diamonds) than a straight or set. I would tend to rule out a set, as 99-77 would probably be a preflop raise and 44 is a muck on the flop, so if you are beat it's probably by something like JTs or 98s. Anyway, I would be thinking medium suited cards for the button's hand based on the preflop limp, and against a strong opponent who should occassionally semibluff raise with something like T8d, I think you are obliged to call it down given your chances of being ahead or drawing to 8 outs.

I don't think you should have folded if you were having difficulty putting the button on a hand. Whenever you are confused about where you stand and the pot is decent sized, I think your best play is usually just to try and see the other player's hand as cheaply as possible (assuming you have something of value to show down). The presence of the UTG player muddles your situation somewhat, but she certainly isn't indicating a hand that beats kings (and the button should also be aware she likely has something weak), so I would tend to ignore her in making a decision on whether to call down the button.

I guess I should take lessons from Bob Morgan and save some money. No more KK preflop for me! Seriously though, I think I made the wrong play. Given that the button is a solid player, I don't think there is any set or two pair hand that he would not have played very fast on the flop due to the coordination of the board. 44 is also a fold on the flop, as Coliean pointed out. The only hand that I really should have been afraid of is a flopped straight, which seemed unlikely and definitely warranted a call. Thanks guys.


DN