huge pot and a flush...what to do [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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sin808

08-31-2004, 04:42 AM

This hand was bizarre..I'm really not sure if I played it correctly..I didn't like it, but I felt trapped and in my distracted state looked like I had odds all the way (except pf maybe)...Let me know what you think. The river made me happy, would anyone not raise that?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: sin is MP3 with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, sin calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB raises, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, sin calls, CO 3-bets, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, sin calls.

Flop: (24 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (8 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, sin raises, CO 3-bets, Button calls, SB caps, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, sin calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (26 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (7 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, sin calls, CO 3-bets, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG caps, UTG+1 calls, sin calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (54 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (7 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, sin raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 66 BB
Main Pot: 66 BB, between UTG+1, sin, Button, SB, BB and UTG.

SnakeRat

08-31-2004, 04:53 AM

Nice hand.

sin808

08-31-2004, 06:42 AM

It was until the button turned over 44...I really don't like hands where you feel trapped between nutjobs. They leave me a bit confused as to whether or not I played them right.

cdriver

08-31-2004, 07:03 AM

fold pf ...fold flop..fold turn..you only have one way to win and with all this fireworks on all streets.. even if you make your flush they have many ways to beat you

crockett

08-31-2004, 07:19 AM

I fold pre-flop.

Would have seriously considered folding on the flop when it was 2 back to me. But with that many bets in the pot it is hard to do.

Would have definately folded on the turn with a pair on the board and it's two back to me. Especially that pair being TT or higher. My guess is four of kind, a boat if your lucky because then you can be a closer third best.

True, wild betting can be a pain but it seems to me that they always seem to slow down. No one did here.

When seven go to the turn and a pair hits the board, I say OH-OH and graciously bow out unless I have a boat. Then I start bettting with my eyes closed and hope my boat is the biggest.

Sent

08-31-2004, 07:59 AM

Pot is way too big to fold on the flop even if it is two back to him.

-Sent

cjromero

08-31-2004, 08:12 AM

I would have folded this preflop. With As8s, I would have called.

helpmeout

08-31-2004, 08:13 AM

1. Whether you fold or call preflop is based on what the table is like. Most passive tables I would call as well.

2. With so much action you'd have to suspect trips.

3. The turn I'd fold, even though it is a big pot it is likely that you are already beat and drawing to nothing. You also have to call 4BB to see the river card which is too much.

Weird how the button didnt 3bet the river.

kgrad5

08-31-2004, 08:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
...fold flop..fold turn..

[/ QUOTE ]

terrible, terrible advice, he has flopped a very strong draw. every single bet that goes into the pot on the flop makes you money when you have a 4 flush and the pot is HUGE!! on the turn when the board pairs you have more of a case to fold if you can put someone specifically on a boat. given the ragged flop i cannot do this, i put lots of people on overpairs and MAYBE 2 people on trips but even so, the pot is HUGE! the river is obviously fine, you should thank the guy with 44 for not taking more money, i would have capped that river, im not giving anybody credit for 106, 103 etc.

but sin, save your weak suited hands for passive games which this clearly was not.. fold kxs preflop unless the game conditions are correct.

kgrad5

08-31-2004, 08:35 AM

i think this post has a big case of results oriented thinking, im pretty sure that no one here can say with certainty that on the turn he is drawing dead, does everyone put someone exactly on 66 or 44? can you all seriously put someone on 106 or 104? i would call this turn 100% of the time given the huge pot and the fact that i only have to win it 1 time in 12090323290329023903290 to be profitable which will happen alot more often then that.

helpmeout

08-31-2004, 08:52 AM

I've had my flushes beat too many times to call 4BB on a 4:1 shot when the board is paired.

DMBFan23

08-31-2004, 09:41 AM

fold pf is proabably marginally + or - EV at this limit, I tend to play it but anyways you don't get Kxs in MP very often, so if that's a leak of mine it's not a big one. and I'm much better postflop than the typical party goon.

Flop: FOLD this flop?????? not a chance!!! Don't be results oriented and say "oh well he had a set, obviously you were beaten" This is a great flop, I'm seeing the river with this one basically every time.

in time your weak tightness will be eradicated and the priest will declare your house clear of its demons /images/graemlins/smile.gif

sin808

08-31-2004, 10:02 AM

Table has been passive for the most part. This was the first hand where we had 8 to the flop, usually 4-5. People will call down with any part of the board, and raise middle pair. Given that fact, 3 limpers and my position I think it's a definite call pf. Now given no reads I would fold it without thinking. I was curious as to what everyones different reactions would be without that read, which is why I didn't include it.

Preflop: sin is MP3 with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, sin calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB raises, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, sin calls, CO 3-bets, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, sin calls.

SB's raise meant he had a big pair, it's the only thing he'd raise with AA, KK, or QQ. He won't raise anything else. CO's limp re-raise kinda screamed A's to me. It's the first time he's done it in 2 hours. I didn't like it, but my position between the two kinda sucked.

Flop: (24 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (8 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, sin raises, CO 3-bets, Button calls, SB caps, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, sin calls, CO calls, Button calls.

I see this as a good flop for me, it's pretty ragged looking, I've got the second nut flush draw...given the chance I would have capped this myself.

Turn: (26 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (7 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, sin calls, CO 3-bets, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG caps, UTG+1 calls, sin calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Didn't like seeing the turn capped, but with the previous pattern it could be someone with a loan T, and the others with their overpairs. I figure I'm definately behind here, probably to trips and at least two people with 2 pair. I have the odds to call, and as long as the board doesn't pair again I'm not conceding a loss yet.

River: (54 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (7 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, sin raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

made my flush, no second pair, SB checks and the bet comes from the BB...my guess here is he made a flush too, question is whether it's the A or not. I figure I'm ahead of everyone else, so I raise. If by some chance I'm ahead of BB I've trapped alot of people who will either call and pay me off, or fold and that's good too. If BB re-raises me I'm probably hosed, but given the pot size I have to call. I liked seeing CO fold here, since he was a concern. I figure someone with a boat will raise me here too. I think most people aren't going anywhere though because of the pot size. In hindsight I probably shouldn't have raised this. The pots too big to fold if it gets re-raised, so what's the point of doing it? I dunno...This is what I felt most uncomfortable with. It was just outright stupid...we all have our moments I guess.

Final Pot: 66 BB
Main Pot: 66 BB, between UTG+1, sin, Button, SB, BB and UTG. > Pot won by Button (66 BB).

Results:
SB shows Qd Qs (two pair, queens and tens).
BB shows 7s 9s (flush, ten high).
UTG shows 9c Td (three of a kind, tens).
UTG+1 shows 2h 2s (two pair, tens and twos).
sin shows 8s Ks (flush, king high).
Button shows 4h 4d (full house, fours full of tens).
Outcome: Button wins 66 BB.

It was nice to see that my reads were all correct, but I was about floored by the button, since he was so passive the whole way. Glad he didn't raise me on the river though. He got the sOOOOper passive note.

DeathDonkey

08-31-2004, 10:16 AM

Your raising the river for value. Don't worry about the results here as you played fine. Depending on where the 3 bet came from I may cap the river.

-DeathDonkey

bisonbison

08-31-2004, 10:50 AM

nice hand.

Preflop: It may be a little loose. That's all. If it hurts you, I don't think it hurts you much.

Flop: yep.

Turn: yep.

River: With that many callers, you only have to be right once in a very long while for this raise to be correct.

Nice hand.

radek2166

08-31-2004, 10:56 AM

For what its worth in an unraised pot I will Limp with Kxs. Other than that you did wonderful.

ALso got to look at the bright side atleast you were not rerasied on the river.

kgrad5

08-31-2004, 12:02 PM

on the flop, this is a 2-1 shot, folding is a big mistake, if you fear a boat every time you have a flush, you are seeing monsters under the bed

Trix

08-31-2004, 12:28 PM

The preflop seems very close to me, think I could go both ways depending on the players behind me.

Rest of the hand is good, thank BB for not 3betting the river.