Doyle....folding AQ?

[3rdEye]

Anyone else confused by Doyle Brunson's folding AQo from the big blind to what easily could have been a positional raise (roughly 4x BB raise, I think) from Chip Reese (in the FSN Poker Superstars Invitational)? I know Doyle doesn't like AQ all that much, but why fold it in the BB to a raise from Chip Reese when you're going to call a similar raise from Johnny Chan with KQo?

I've obviously never played with Reese or Chan, so it's very possible that Doyle was playing the players and not the cards here, but his two plays seemed pretty inconsistent here (unless he was trying to advertise that he was playing tight by showing his AQ fold, which he did).

[Nottom]

Well it could be that Doyle respects Chip's play more than Chan's, but more likely it was just that he didn't want to play AQo from out of position that early in the tourney. When he played the KQ, he had position on Chan.

[lolita16]

AQ is a terrible no limit hand and it is extremely hard to play after the flop particularly out of position. The big problem with this hand is that you will win a small pot or lose a big one unless you flop perfect.

I steal with AQ and KQ, but otherwise have little use for them in no limit.

[bgtas]

i read somewhere that he never plays aq so that could be it

[Trainwreck]

But plays T2o?

>TW<

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
But plays T2o?

>TW<

[/ QUOTE ]

That was heads-up, get a clue.

[77rules]

[ QUOTE ]
i read somewhere that he never plays aq so that could be it

[/ QUOTE ]
In Super System there's a section on names for different hands (AK is Big Slick, T2 is a Doyle Brunson, et c). Anyways, in that section he writes that the AQ is also called a Brunson because he never plays that hand.

Not that I've ever heard anybody but Brunson call AQ a Brunson, but that's probably where you read it.

I think that Doyle had a senior moment at the time.

[ QUOTE ]
AQ is a terrible no limit hand and it is extremely hard to play after the flop particularly out of position. The big problem with this hand is that you will win a small pot or lose a big one unless you flop perfect.

It was small raise(9,000). Doyle definitely should have called and seen the flop.
I steal with AQ and KQ, but otherwise have little use for them in no limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
AQ is a terrible no limit hand and it is extremely hard to play after the flop particularly out of position. The big problem with this hand is that you will win a small pot or lose a big one unless you flop perfect.

I steal with AQ and KQ, but otherwise have little use for them in no limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was small raise of $9,000. Doyle should have definitely called and seen the flop.

[Ledererfan]

[ QUOTE ]
But plays T2o?

>TW<

[/ QUOTE ]

twice /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Justin A]

I believe AQo is called "Doyle Brunson" (so is T2) because he refuses to play it. He absolutely despises the hand.

Justin A

[Justin A]

Damn. Looks like 77rules said the exact same thing before me.

Justin A

[jaydoggie]

lolita,

why only use AQ/KQ as a steal hand. they definately have a lot of value, just ahve to be played more carefully.

if youre only going for a "steal" why do you need a hand at all? use 74s/Q4s (junk) to steal since you dont intend on making it to a showdown. these hands flop "perfect" almost as easily as AQo.

[jaydoggie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But plays T2o?

>TW<

[/ QUOTE ]

That was heads-up, get a clue.

[/ QUOTE ]

in the first episode of 2003 WSOP on ESPN they showed doyle play T2o on his first table. he was up agianst a middle pair, and he won with a pair of tens.

im certain he doesnt play it every time its dealt, but not always only heads-up either.

[77rules]

[ QUOTE ]
im certain he doesnt play it every time its dealt, but not always only heads-up either.

[/ QUOTE ]
It was his comment at that hand that cracked me up - "I couldn't help myself ..."

In a recent Cardplayer interview, he said he used to play the hand a lot after his two back to back WSOP-wins, but "let's just say I don't anymore" as he put it.

[lolita16]

I;m sorry. I should have stated that a bit more clearly. Yes, I do steal with many different hands or no hand at all. AQ and KQ are two of the hands that I will attempt a push/steal in a bit earlier position than some other weaker hands such as AJ, KJ, etc.

I get an argument every time that I post this type of subject but I truly beleive that one of the big differences between great no limit player and decent no limit players is the way that they play "trap, dominated" hands. Allow me to give you an example.

You raise in early position with AQs to the standard three times the big blind. You get called or reraised from behind you by a good no limit player. What hands do you give your opponent? True he may have JJ, 10/10 etc. in which case you are a slight dog but he also may have AK, AA, KK etc. In the best case that he has a pair smaller than queens, how much action are you likely to get when you flop a hand?

I could give you countless examples in the broadcasts that I have watched of these hands being troublesome. (Phil Ivey bust out at Foxwoods with AQs vs Lederer KK, Thomas Keller bustout at Plaza with AQ to Layne Flack's KK, Gus trapped and dominated with AJ vs Reese's AK, though he did suck out, etc.)

In no limit play when you are looking to trap your opponent for all of his chips, these are the types of hands you should look to avoid when possible.

[fnurt]

[ QUOTE ]
You raise in early position with AQs to the standard three times the big blind. You get called or reraised from behind you by a good no limit player. What hands do you give your opponent? True he may have JJ, 10/10 etc. in which case you are a slight dog but he also may have AK, AA, KK etc. In the best case that he has a pair smaller than queens, how much action are you likely to get when you flop a hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

The key phrase in this example is that you're up against a "good no limit player." Against your average internet clown, AQ should be a very profitable hand in both cash games and tournaments. Against a good player who is less likely to show up with a dominated hand, yes, it's a trap. You really can't compare typical Internet play to the games Doyle was writing about though.

[Raiser]

When he folded it he said something like "that won't be my hand when I get busted out." He just hates the hand. And, by showing everyone that he folded it he lets them know that when he does come into a pot he must have the goods.

Regarding playing with Chip vs. Chan. Chan is notoriously one of the tightest pros around. Doyle probably figured he could take the pot by betting almost any flop. I'm not sure the same could be said in a pot with Chip as I don't know his game as well.

[mistrpug]

[ QUOTE ]
i read somewhere that he never plays aq so that could be it

[/ QUOTE ]

I confirm that.

[bigfishead]

Doyle has played hundreds upon hundreds of hours with Chip.
Chip also has position. Doyle & Chip both know position and its value.