Well, There Goes $50... (Not A Bad Beat)

[Tron]

Within a mere 72 hours of depositing $50 at PokerRoom, I have lost all but one dollar playing $0.25/$0.50 tables and $5+$1 SNGs. I'm not upset, though; in fact, I'm motivated. Now I have a good idea of some major improvements I need to make (be more patient, realize when I'm beat, etc.) and have the motivation to do so (getting my $50 back). It usually takes something like this for me to get my ass in gear no matter the circumstances, so I think this could all work out for the best. Anyway, the plan is that for the next couple of months I'll dedicate a couple hours to studying every day, and then apply the concepts on the play money tables. I have $10,000 in play money right now, and I don't think I should start playing for real money again until I have at least $500,000.

Well... Any advice or encouragement would be appreciated, and if you're one of the people who took my money, be warned... I'll be back for it!

[illunious]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, the plan is that for the next couple of months I'll dedicate a couple hours to studying every day, and then apply the concepts on the play money tables. I have $10,000 in play money right now, and I don't think I should start playing for real money again until I have at least $500,000.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good plan. This is the same thing I did when I lost my first $200 deposit on Party. Only difference is I moved down to penny games instead of back to play money.

[The_Tracker]

[ QUOTE ]
Within a mere 72 hours of depositing $50 at PokerRoom, I have lost all but one dollar playing $0.25/$0.50 tables and $5+$1 SNGs. I'm not upset, though; in fact, I'm motivated. Now I have a good idea of some major improvements I need to make (be more patient, realize when I'm beat, etc.) and have the motivation to do so (getting my $50 back). It usually takes something like this for me to get my ass in gear no matter the circumstances, so I think this could all work out for the best. Anyway, the plan is that for the next couple of months I'll dedicate a couple hours to studying every day, and then apply the concepts on the play money tables. I have $10,000 in play money right now, and I don't think I should start playing for real money again until I have at least $500,000.

Well... Any advice or encouragement would be appreciated, and if you're one of the people who took my money, be warned... I'll be back for it!

[/ QUOTE ]

Read some books. Read this forum. Play alot of poker.

But don't expect to learn much from play money tables on any site. Gameplay with play money is usually just an all-in fest before the flop. You don't learn much that way except how to cough up all your chips.

Good Luck! /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Tron]

I wish I could move down to the penny games, but I have a Mac so the only site I can use is PokerRoom and the smallest tables they have are $0.25/$0.50. I was thinking about investing in Virtual PC, but after my latest performance I think I'll wait... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Vollycat]

[ QUOTE ]
Read some books. Read this forum. Play alot of poker.

But don't expect to learn much from play money tables on any site. Gameplay with play money is usually just an all-in fest before the flop. You don't learn much that way except how to cough up all your chips.

Good Luck!

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this a lot. I am trying to make a transition, slowly, up the ranks of limit. I received advice on this forum stating that the .5/1 games are really not very good training ground for a 2/4 game because the two games polay so much differently. I beleive this now after dabbling a lit bit. What the .5/1 game does do is gets you playing poker with money on the line--which is different than free games. The lower limits may not play like the higher limits but it does place a value to the game--IMO. Keep reading here and good poker books.

I think waiting for 500,000 chips is a great thing--you'll see a lot of cards, and you will most likely protect your money better when you do redeposit, but you will probably have to get ready to change a gear or two when money is for real again.

[Sarge85]

Hit to burst your bubble - but those play money games aren't going to do you a damn thing.

Here's what I'd do in your shoes. The time you are willing to spend learning bad habits at the play money tables...use instead to read poker books. Specifically Winning Low Limit Hold'em. Also go through the Micro Limit fourm - hand by hand, post by post. Read Read and then read some more.

Probably a good starting point is right HERE (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=holdem&Number=560368&fpart =1&PHPSESSID=)

GL

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[helpmeout]

1. Get a cheap PC, only being able to play at 1 site is a huge disadvantage.

2. Freerolls are good for a few weeks, but after that they dont offer much. The games are just too loose aggressive and don't compare to even the lowest real money games.

3. Open an account at Pacific poker, I believe this to be the best site for beginners as you are able to build your bankroll up from 0.05/0.10 games (no huge jump in limits like many other sites). Pacific also has freeroll tourneys everyday which are good practice.

4. Work your way through the limits. I started a month ago after depositing $50+$13 bonus and played 0.05/0.1 now I have $150 and am playing 0.25/0.50 games.

5. Play well within your bankroll. Best to stick with the 300BB amount, but try to stay in the lowest limit while you are learning a great deal. When you move up and have no success move back down when you hit 200BB in that limit.

6. Study like mad, read everything online then start purchasing books. Some people say buy books first but I disagree. Most of the information online is very similar and after a few weeks or a month of study and experience from playing, a book wont overwhelm you. The Lee Jones book and Hold'em Poker for Advanced players are both good books to start out with.

7. If you need a break from ring games play in freeroll tourneys, very low micro tourneys or cheap SNGs. Don't get sucked into playing games above your bankroll. Even now with $150 I try to stick to 2.50+25c Multis and $2+20c SNGs. If I win or do well it'll add a nice amount to my bankroll but if I lose it is no big deal. Playing $5+50c Multis or SNGs takes too big a chunk out of your BR when it is small.

8. Most important thing is to log your progress, you have to know your BB/HR rates. Also tools like PokerTracker will help you improve past the beginner/novice stage however you cant use it at Pacific.

[Wahoo91]

This is good advice for a beginning player.

[Bukem_]

Similar to what I've done and I've had good success.

[Tron]

That's some great advice... Thanks a lot.

[scotnt73]

very good points. although while studying if you want to play a bit of free money games choose the sit and goes. it will be a little more realistic. thats what i did. every now and then youll get one where everyone at the table takes it seriously. if not the last 4 or 5 usually do. at least this is how it was a year and a half ago when i last played free money at party.


also once you are ready to play again wait for a relead bonus. then deposit as much as you can comfortably. then once you get a decent bankroll pay yourself back YOUR initial investment and play on with thiers. im a winning player but i lost 3 times before i deposited 400$ instead of 50$. i never looked back.

[kenberman]

I don't think you should start Real Money until you have $1,000,000,000,000 in play money.

[Tron]

I dunno, a trillion dollars kind of seems like a lot. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[AncientPC]

Just buy it off eBay. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[MrHorace]

Sarge,
Am a little late on this reply, but wanted to thank you for pointing out the awesome post from illunious. I also am glad you steered him away from the play money tables. I believe that while they get you used to looking at cards, they can only cause bad habits.

I would second the reading. I am reading, reading, reading, and believe it is sinking in. My play has been 2/4 B&M, but from this forum I'm convinced that this isn't the best way to start. Am in process of scraping together my 300 BB for 0.5/1, will invest in Poker Tracker, and get wait to start posting hands to get feedback.

[MrHorace]

[ QUOTE ]
7. If you need a break from ring games play in freeroll tourneys, very low micro tourneys or cheap SNGs. Don't get sucked into playing games above your bankroll. Even now with $150 I try to stick to 2.50+25c Multis and $2+20c SNGs. If I win or do well it'll add a nice amount to my bankroll but if I lose it is no big deal. Playing $5+50c Multis or SNGs takes too big a chunk out of your BR when it is small.

[/ QUOTE ]
Help, can you helpmeout? /images/graemlins/grin.gif I keep reading/hearing that these SNG's are a good way to break up the tedium on ring games. I'm premature here as I haven't even started playing online yet for $$, as playing live. But I wanted to ask when I saw your post.

Where can I learn more about these tournaments, and when you say $2 +20c, what does that mean?

Thanks,
MrHorace

[AncientPC]

[ QUOTE ]
Help, can you helpmeout? /images/graemlins/grin.gif I keep reading/hearing that these SNG's are a good way to break up the tedium on ring games. I'm premature here as I haven't even started playing online yet for $$, as playing live. But I wanted to ask when I saw your post.

Where can I learn more about these tournaments, and when you say $2 +20c, what does that mean?

Thanks,
MrHorace

[/ QUOTE ]

SNGs are good for a break from ring games, and you get a lot of poker for your money. Some people make their money primarily from SNGs, but that's not my cup of tea. I think variance is much easier to control in NL ring games and it's easier to multitable. When I'm playing either in an MTT or SNG I have to focus 70% of my attention on that one table . . .

When it says $2 + $.20 it means that $2 goes to the pot and $.20 goes to the casino as rake. Typical rake is 10% (so stay away from Party's $5+$1 where rake is 20%). Usually the top 3 get paid in a 50% / 30% / 20% fashion.

Here's a good primer for SNGs:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=602767&page=&view=&sb=5&o =&vc=1

[bwana devil]

Forget the play money. I didn't read the replies but I assume someone or everyone echoed the same thing. In the time it would take you build up that play money, your time would be better spent reading poker books and applying that to MICROlimit games.

good luck.

[Shoe Lace]

If someone is actually looking to seriously improve their game, wouldn't micro limits be worse than playing a higher limit free money table?

At pokerroom.com for example, there's the 10/20 NL tables (lowest amount). It's filled with people who would only hurt your game. No question about it.

However once you move to the 50/100 6 handed ring games, the play there is kind of decent.

I'm trying to get at, for a developing player (like myself as well -- I've only been playing for 3 weeks), wouldn't it be better to play with peers (people around your skill level) rather than play microlimits vs players who have no respect for any of the money on the table (typical people just looking to have a good time and gamble)?

I've spectated a lot of microlimit games, and it usually involves some guy calling a 10xBB raise pre-flop with T3os from UTG+1, and re-calling a 15xBB raise by someone on the button, only to hit a set of 3s on the flop and bet 2xBB when he does. That can't be good to learn from.

[illunious]

[ QUOTE ]
I've spectated a lot of microlimit games, and it usually involves some guy calling a 10xBB raise pre-flop with T3os from UTG+1, and re-calling a 15xBB raise by someone on the button

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously, this guy is exactly who you want at your table.

[ QUOTE ]
However once you move to the 50/100 6 handed ring games, the play there is kind of decent.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never advanced to the upper levels of play money. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some decent play money competition.

[ QUOTE ]
That can't be good to learn from.


[/ QUOTE ]

Learning to beat an uber-fishy game like this is a good skill to have, because this is the game you want to be sitting in when it's real money.

[Shoe Lace]

Hmm, I don't disagree learning to beat such games is a bad idea, but what happens if you "think" those moves are right, and you eventually move up to a limit where you can lose a noticible amount of money and they no longer work (and you get burned -- bad)?

I suppose you could say, if you're playing at a limit where losing a buy-in is noticible, then you shouldn't be playing at that limit, however as a beginner -- if you spend all your time at micro games, you will begin to think you're a lot better than you really are.

Is that good or bad, as opposed to actually playing in upper limit play money games where your opposition is likely to portray skills you would encounter in non-microlimit play (say a 2/4, or even a 3/6 NL game)?

[AncientPC]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm, I don't disagree learning to beat such games is a bad idea, but what happens if you "think" those moves are right, and you eventually move up to a limit where you can lose a noticible amount of money and they no longer work (and you get burned -- bad)?

[/ QUOTE ]

You move back down or you adapt your game to the table, suffer a short term financial set back for a chance to improve your poker game overall.

[helpmeout]

You always have to adapt.

The play money games are 10 times looser than the 5c/10c games at pacific. They are more like raise or fold games where every street is capped.

Sure the micros arent going to be the same as 50c/$1 or higher but no game is. You have to learn everytime you progress.

I moved up to 50c/$1 at pacific after having beat every limit below for around 5BB/HR. About 10 hours later I was down 100BB and went back down to 25c/50c.

Since then I played some 5c/10c at pokerstars and some .01/.02NL hoping to get a cheap lesson against better players. I didnt do that well so I started reading a lot more again.

I still have a lot to learn and we all do.

Even though I got smashed in 50c/$1 I still only started with $50 and now have $183 so I only lost money I had won from micros.

I'll rebuild my bankroll to $300 and try 50c/$1 again. If the same thing happens well I will go back to stars and read a lot more.

[derick]

As someone who made millions in play money on Ultimate Bet and Party I've learned this.

Play money doesn't get sophisticated until you reach the $10,000 buy in level. You should be able to build up your inital $1000 to $100,000 in a very short time doubling your stake every hour in NL.

Once you get to the $100,000 buy in level things get sophisticated.

Playing Play money teaches you how to win Play Money. This is not really a useful skill to get in the habit of. I regret learning to beat the play money game. My instincts are wrong now. Real money players play like it's real money sometimes! Losing a million play money in a couple hours is not uncommon and doesn't hurt your bankroll in real life.

If you or anyone else wants a few hundred thousand play money just PM me.

Summary:Don't play the play money games except perhaps to get used to the game interface.

[AncientPC]

[ QUOTE ]
Summary:Don't play the play money games except perhaps to get used to the game interface.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or to learn a new game. I learned Omaha with play money. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

The only other place I'd suggest playing with play money is Absolute Poker since they give out $50 if you make a real money deposit after accruing $15M in play money.