Too aggressive with top set and a nice redraw?

[chesspain]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Given the consensus that I overplayed the two hands from my "chip spewing idiot" thread this morning, I would like some feedback on this hand. Unfortunately, I hadn't been at this table for very long, so I had no good reads.

Preflop: chesspain is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">chesspain raises</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">chesspain bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">chesspain bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">chesspain 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, CO calls.

River: (17.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">chesspain bets</font>, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 20.50 BB, between chesspain, MP1 and CO.</font>

With respect to the turn action, since I had ten outs to the top boat/quads, and another nine outs to the second nut flush, was this an easy value three-bet?

[cnfuzzd]

Looks g00t.

peace

john nickle

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]
With respect to the turn action, since I had ten outs to the top boat/quads, and another nine outs to the second nut flush, was this an easy value three-bet?



[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for putting it in perspective. I wasn't even thinking value raise. Shows you how much I know. If the raiser calls all the time and at least one of the other players call at least 50% of the time then it is EV+, so very nice work.

[spamuell]

[ QUOTE ]
Given the consensus that I overplayed the two hands from my "chip spewing idiot" thread

[/ QUOTE ]

A nearly uninamous one. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Looks like you played this one perfectly to me, but it seems I'm quite the LAG.

[wacki]

Forgive me for sounding dumb, but how is this a value bet?

[sublime]

With respect to the turn action, since I had ten outs to the top boat/quads, and another nine outs to the second nut flush, was this an easy value three-bet?

How about going for overcalls?

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
With respect to the turn action, since I had ten outs to the top boat/quads, and another nine outs to the second nut flush, was this an easy value three-bet?

How about going for overcalls?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that is the crux of the matter. /images/graemlins/grin.gif Indeed, since I may already have the best hand, and if not, I have a 40% chance of improving to the nuts (assuming no one has the A /images/graemlins/club.gif) is it better to:

A. spend 1 bet in order to gain approx. 2.5 more (I assume that half of the time that one of the callers will fold realizing he's possibly drawing dead), or

B. spend 2 bets in order to gain approx. 3-4 more, while risking a cap.

It's difficult for me to figure out all of the math, especially with the unknown as to how many of the callers will call two more bets. But the more I look at this, I wonder if just calling the turn was better?

[sublime]

I am not sure about the math either, but I do know two things:

The lone A /images/graemlins/club.gif isnt going to fold no matta what ya do

The lone Q/J /images/graemlins/club.gif might fold if you 3-bet

I guess I am thinking aloud whether or not the 3-bet hurts your implied odds, along with the bets it "may" cost you on the turn

[Trix]

I think it´s good chess. I expect to be called by CO and one of the others on avg. Especially since you probably will have to bet out if a club hits on the river anyway.