friendly discussion during a game

[kgrad5]

i got into a friendly discussion with someone i was at a table with at stars recently. the situation was this, the board was A K Q J 10 with no flush possibilities and 3 players left in the hand (i had folded pf) and someone bet the river and they both called. the river bet did not add anything to the rake. one of the players in the hand then proceeded to yell at the better asking him why he would bet when the nuts are on the board? so i was bored and the cards were cold and i decided to jump to the betters defence.

my position is this. the bet on the end has absolutely no risk at all, it does not add to the rake so there is no chance of his bet costing him any more money. however there is a slight, albeit very small chance that someone might misread the board, or misclick and fold this river. thus his bet has at WORST lost him nothing and won him nothing, however, in the best case, lets say 1 time in 1,000,000 someone folds he has made himself half of whatever that person has put into the pot, lets say it would be on average 2.5 big bets since a board that draw heavy would tend to get a little big so 5 BB isnt so unreasonable for a person to invest. even though this is so rare to happen the bet is +EV so i would make it every time. the fellow i was debating with said that he would never make this bet because he feels the chance someone will fold is so small and it would be an insult to their intelligence to bet.

what do you guys think of this? would you bet it? ive seen a lot of hands where people fold when the board is the nuts..

[Jimbobobb]

I was once in the exact same situation, except I was actually in the hand. The board on the river was T J Q K
A, no flushes possible. First guy bet, second guy FOLDED, I raised :-) 4th guy FOLDED. Awesome. Never underestimate the inability of party .5/1 players.

[Greg J]

I have done this before actually -- well much similar. Someone once bet in a similar situation and I raised! And guess what? Some moron folded!

[Sidekick]

I'm in your camp kgrad5. I have seen the nuts on the board several times and seen people fold when someone bets it.

If there is no risk to you, why not bet? As Ed states in SSH, we aren't really winning most of our cash from brilliant play but through our opponent's mistakes (at least that's a paraphrase if *I* am understanding things correctly). This seems a golden opportunity to let an opponent make a really silly mistake.

That being said... I don't think I want to let the player pitching a fit in on this. If he wants to rant and not understand WHY someone will make that bet, I'm leaving him in the dark.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
I was once in the exact same situation, except I was actually in the hand. The board on the river was T J Q K
A, no flushes possible. First guy bet, second guy FOLDED, I raised :-) 4th guy FOLDED. Awesome. Never underestimate the inability of party .5/1 players.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe they folded because you had a better kicker.

Rob

[sfer]

Of course you're right. Don't listen to moronic table coaches. I did the same in an identical situation on a Party SnG, except I moved in and I got two people to fold. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[radek2166]

I allways bet or raise when the nuts are on the board. I was in a pot where 6 to the river and 3 folded to a cappped river. So be it if noone folds and the rake is more. I have seen this work 75% of the time with more than me and another in the pot.

[prayformojo]

I bet this river against any player I don't know for certain has half a brain. At my casino I have folded one person out of a multi-way pot with a nut board twice, and once folded my heads up opponent out. In each case, they had their error pointed out, and acknowledged a mistake that can be seen in the following example.

On the turn, the board is A/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/club.gif Q/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif

I have A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, raised preflop and have been the aggressor on each street. My opponent has 8/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif. He bet the flop, but has backed down to my raise and turn bet. On the turn, he reads me (correctly) for a made straight, and I read him (correctly) for a flush draw. He is praying for that club to fall. He is dying for that club to fall. Only the club can win this pot for him. The club means everything in the world. His life will surely get better from here on in, if only that damn club will fall.

River: T/images/graemlins/heart.gif

No club, see a bet from a better hand, fold. Plenty of people out there view the river card from the perspective of what they want, not what they have. Exploiting that just makes sense.

[sin808]

I've both seen and been involved in those situations before...you'd really be surprised how many people will fold to a bet. Seems like there's always at least one.