3 Party 3/6 hands to poop on...

[Fnord]

Hand 1

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Fnord is BB with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Fnord checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Fnord bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, SB folds, Fnord calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Fnord checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Fnord folds.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB

Hand 2

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Fnord is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="CC3333">Fnord raises</font>, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (7.33 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Fnord folds, CO folds.

Final Pot: 4.16 BB

Hand 3

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Fnord is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="CC3333">UTG raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls, <font color="CC3333">Fnord 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB folds, <font color="CC3333">UTG caps</font>, CO calls, Fnord calls.

Flop: (13.33 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, CO calls, Fnord calls.

Turn: (8.16 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="CC3333">Fnord raises</font>, UTG calls, CO calls.

River: (14.16 BB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, CO checks, <font color="CC3333">Fnord bets</font>, UTG calls, CO folds.

Final Pot: 16.16 BB

[House-Lion]

hand 1
ouch - looks like just the moves people make against me, only difference is they catch on the turn or river when staying in for the turn-bet.

I am not sure I approve of this play, sure you are trying to represent an ace but often the general party-player will have an ace here, and I am not considdering that the second ace comes on the turn.

Hand 2
The more I think about it the more realistic this fold seems to be, but it is also a great bluff-oportunity for anyone first to bet this flop.


Hand 3
Strong raise on the turn. I asume UTG had AJ, ATs or something like KK or JJ. God knows what CO had (an ace with poor kicker? some wiered holding we can not even comprehend?)

[bakku]

Hand 1: I check/fold this, there's only 3 SB in the pot.

Hand 2: Do you have a read on UTG+1? I'm not really sure what to do here but I don't think folding is all that bad.

Hand 3: I don't know what the correct line is here, but I think I like just calling the flop/turn and popping the river when my kicker hits. I think you're up against AK/KK in this particular hand.

[Fnord]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: I check/fold this, there's only 3 SB in the pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

My hope was that I was up against a random pocket pair that might fold to the Ace in a small pot. In retrospect, I didn't like the play either, although the table was folding a lot on the flop.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 3: I don't know what the correct line is here, but I think I like just calling the flop/turn and popping the river when my kicker hits. I think you're up against AK/KK in this particular hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was confused on every street except the river here too...

[Trix]

1) Fold to the flop raise.
2) Good
3) Fold preflop. If he caps AK/QQ+, then it´s about even money that you are ahead, but he may fold KK/QQ and 3bet AK, so I dont like the raise.

[Fnord]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Fold to the flop raise.


[/ QUOTE ]

No way, I got to have implied odds on 4 clean outs here expecting Ax to give me action.

[Trix]

So when you check-raise the turn Ax will 3bet or what ?

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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1) Fold to the flop raise.



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No way, I got to have implied odds on 4 clean outs here expecting Ax to give me action.



[/ QUOTE ]

good point. You actually have 12-1 implied odds here if you CR the turn after hitting

hand 2 - i play same

3 - standard play is fold AQo to a raise, right? Even more so to an random UTG raiser

[Michael Davis]

Trix is saying you should fold to the first raise before the flop. You must have taken it as something different.

Trix is correct. AQo doesn't pass the test against most UTG raisers.

-Michael

[BigEndian]

Hand 1: Bad
Hand 2: Good
Hand 3: Good [edit] wasn't looking at the PF action, I fold this PF, all else is good

- Jim

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]


Hand 1: Bad


[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. He only need two to fold and I think he gets that 1/3 of the time. And he doesn't even need two folds that often for it to be profitable.

unfortunately, i've got to go, so i can't respond to your counter argument /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[BigEndian]

It's not as clean as the immediate odds, that can be seen by what happens if given action - as did in this hand. The pot is microscopic and there are two cards up there that can make a hand for someone. Our hero spent 1BB trying to take down 1.5BB without anything to fall back on with a draw.

Bad /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

- Jim

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not as clean as the immediate odds, that can be seen by what happens if given action - as did in this hand. The pot is microscopic and there are two cards up there that can make a hand for someone. Our hero spent 1BB trying to take down 1.5BB without anything to fall back on with a draw.





[/ QUOTE ]

I've been working on this problem for 90 minutes and I don't have the patience to double check my work. But I'll lay it out for you.

The % of both opponents missing is 44% (1/3*1/3)
I assumed that if neither opponent hits then Hero will take down the pot. Both opponents will miss 4.4/10 times So out of 10 times, Hero will take down 13.2 sb
I also assumed that if one opponent hits then hero will be raised. Hero will be raised 4.6 times out of 10. Out of those 4.6 times, hero will miss the turn completely 4.09 times for -8.18 sb. Hero will hit his straight on the turn .38 times for +4.18 sb. Then an insignificant fraction of the time, Hero will hit a pair on turn then miss river, hit pair on turn and hit river, hit a runner runner and still loose. The result is that hero looses a total of 3.77 sb out of the 4.6 times he is raised.

I did not factor in both opponents hitting.

Hero wins .94 sb each time he makes this play.

Furthermore, the assumptions that won't always be accurate tend to favor the Hero. 1)Hero won't always be raised when someone hits. And 2)Hero will sometimes be drawing to 2 more sb should the third player cold call the raise. However, Hero won't always take the pot when neither player hits. And moreover, some percentage of the time one of the two other players won't hit but will have a pocket pair that they might call down with.

[Fnord]

[ QUOTE ]

The % of both opponents missing is 44% (1/3*1/3)


[/ QUOTE ]

...for 2 random hands. This is probably a pretty close guess for the SB, however an UTG limp is clearly not a random hand unless they have a silly VP$IP (not the case here.)

[jt1]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The % of both opponents missing is 44% (1/3*1/3)



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...for 2 random hands. This is probably a pretty close guess for the SB, however an UTG limp is clearly not a random hand unless they have a silly VP$IP (not the case here.)



[/ QUOTE ]

good point. Most UTG limpers are either tight passive or the type to play any pair, suited connector, suited ace at any time. Even those guys bolster your theory. I'd say UTG has a pair here about 60% of the time and SB about 33% so that doesn't look good for hero.