prayformojo
08-29-2004, 05:46 AM
5/10 all night B&M session. The table seems to be all over the place, mostly tight players but two young guys who play smart hands 95% of the time then lay out a blind raise, or cap pre-flop with 93o for laughs. The damndest thing about this table is that people are folding rivers right left and centre with 10BB+ in the pot. I'm used to bad folds on the river: the players at my casino are all top notch hand readers, as well as experts at spotting tells, and know when they are beat. But here's the thing: they aren't just folding the river; they are mucking their hands on the river when they are called, before seeing their opponents' hands. In my first two hours there, I saw this happen four times. I choked on my water with lemon and ice each time.
Here is an extreme example from a hand I played later in the session. BB is new to the table. He just moved from another table, where he busted out after twenty minutes, and has bought in for the required minimum 10BB. Button is a very loose pre-flop raiser (apparently any suited face card or ace, and any suited connector 76 and up, from any position). He plays pretty passively postflop. MP1 is generally tight, but is one of the guys occasionally playing and raising ridiculous hands. He also often overplays weak hands and pushes bluffs too far. Ironically, that style may be somewhat profitable for him because of the following behaviour:
Pref-flop: Mojo is BB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif
2 limp, MP1 raises, folded to Button, Button 3-bets, SB caps, Mojo calls, called around.
Flop: Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif
SB bets, Mojo raises, limpers fold, MP1 3-bets, Button calls, SB calls, Mojo calls.
Turn: 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
SB checks, Mojo checks, MP1 checks, Button bets, SB calls, Mojo calls, MP1 calls.
River: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
SB checks, Mojo checks, MP1 bets, Button folds, SB calls, Mojo calls.
Drumroll ... Dealer points to MP1, who smiles sheepishly and mucks face down. ... Dealer points to SB, who nods knowingly at Mojo and says "I can't catch anything today" and MUCKS FACE DOWN! Board pair and nut pocket kickers is good for a preposterously large pot, and I don't even have to show my cards.
This is not a bragging post. Nor is it a "those damn fish" post. But someone, anyone, who has insight into this sort of behaviour, share so I can exploit it further. Is it merely embarassment? The fear of being thought a bad player for getting caught bluffing or semi-bluffing? People come to play poker, and, in MP1's case anyway, seem to understand that it requires some knowledge and skill to win money consistently, then seem to forget all that when all they have to do to win money is turn two cards over. Risk=0. Potential Gain>0. Sounds like positive expected value to me.
Here is an extreme example from a hand I played later in the session. BB is new to the table. He just moved from another table, where he busted out after twenty minutes, and has bought in for the required minimum 10BB. Button is a very loose pre-flop raiser (apparently any suited face card or ace, and any suited connector 76 and up, from any position). He plays pretty passively postflop. MP1 is generally tight, but is one of the guys occasionally playing and raising ridiculous hands. He also often overplays weak hands and pushes bluffs too far. Ironically, that style may be somewhat profitable for him because of the following behaviour:
Pref-flop: Mojo is BB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif
2 limp, MP1 raises, folded to Button, Button 3-bets, SB caps, Mojo calls, called around.
Flop: Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif
SB bets, Mojo raises, limpers fold, MP1 3-bets, Button calls, SB calls, Mojo calls.
Turn: 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
SB checks, Mojo checks, MP1 checks, Button bets, SB calls, Mojo calls, MP1 calls.
River: 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
SB checks, Mojo checks, MP1 bets, Button folds, SB calls, Mojo calls.
Drumroll ... Dealer points to MP1, who smiles sheepishly and mucks face down. ... Dealer points to SB, who nods knowingly at Mojo and says "I can't catch anything today" and MUCKS FACE DOWN! Board pair and nut pocket kickers is good for a preposterously large pot, and I don't even have to show my cards.
This is not a bragging post. Nor is it a "those damn fish" post. But someone, anyone, who has insight into this sort of behaviour, share so I can exploit it further. Is it merely embarassment? The fear of being thought a bad player for getting caught bluffing or semi-bluffing? People come to play poker, and, in MP1's case anyway, seem to understand that it requires some knowledge and skill to win money consistently, then seem to forget all that when all they have to do to win money is turn two cards over. Risk=0. Potential Gain>0. Sounds like positive expected value to me.