More flop play dilemmas

[me454555]

I think I played this one well but I'm just not sure


Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 6.50 BB, won by SB.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to SB.</font>

[AdamL]

Tell me why you raised with 88.

[D.H.]

[ QUOTE ]
Tell me why you raised with 88.

[/ QUOTE ]

With only one limper before him I think it is the right move here. You want to limit the number of players and getting to act last on the flop is perfect for 88.

[bakku]

Tell me why you raised with 88.

Tell me why you wouldn't in this situation.

[tolbiny]

i think the question is, why did you raise the flop with 88.

[tolbiny]

if by this situation you mean raising preflop, i would.
If by this situation you mean raising 88 on a J99 flop with a ab better and a caller already in i wouldnt.

[me454555]

I think the pf raise is pretty standard issue. 1 limper, I wanted the blinds out, and wanted to take control of the button. I was hoping to get it heads up, didn't work oh well.

The flop raise: Thats where I'm having trouble. I was hoping sb had something like overcards, Ax, a strait draw, or a smaller pp and was just testing the waters. I wanted to take control of the hand on the flop. I ruled out calling here and decided to this was a raise or fold situation. If he checked the turn I was going to bet out and check behind on the river.

[MicroBob]

I like with how you played this one.

I might have folded on the flop.
Afterall, it's a bet and a call INTO the PF-raiser.
but I think bailing-out might be a bit weak and I think after raising PF you can legitimately try to fight for this one.

and obviously fold the turn with an unfavorable card and the SB continuing to show strangth.

[me454555]

I wasn't really worried about the caller. This was one of those flops that looked like it could have missed him and he could be calling with as little as 1 overcard. On the flop I felt confident that was I was ahead of the UTG but wasnt sure about sb. I thought if sb was on a 9, I might be able to knock him out on the turn w/another bet if he checked to me.

[AdamL]

The request wasn't rhetorical, and I'll tell you why it struck me as unusual. But understand that I asked because I feel this is a weak part of my game.

In just about any situation where I'm not likely to get it heads up, I'd rather not raise with 88. I just didn't gauge this as a likely spot to achieve that.

I don't like putting in extra money with 88 when I'm likely going against someone with two big cards. Overcards to 88 are common on the flop, and if I bet the flop and get raised or even called I won't know where I'm at. Against aggressive opponents flop raises are common. I don't want to put in extra money knowing that I'm going to fold over 2/3 of the time on the flop.

I see the 8's as a hand that only can afford to keep pressure on against weak opponents heads up. I don't see them being able to take the heat of even a flop raise with overcards on the board.

If it looks like it's going to go multiway, I'd call and try and hit a set. If it's going to be heads up, I want to be against a very timid player.

Raising preflop may be stronger, but I see losing situations come up far more often than winning situations with this hand. It doesn't seem to play well heads-up, just as 98s doesn't. So I either avoid a heads-up situation with a moderately aggressive player or I call and go for a multiway pot.

Now, can you offer some counsel bakku?

Adam

[Chris Daddy Cool]

pf raise in this spot is standard.

flop = fold imo with better + caller into pf raiser.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

it's called iso-raising. when a lone limper limps from ep and its folded to you waaaay into LP, it's critical you try to isolate him by raising. Just calling from that spot, you're still not going to get a big multi-way hand for set value. Raising gives you the chance to get it heads up as 88 does very well heads up, even 3 handed.

My guess is that you lack confidence in your postflop skills and would rather just take the easy safe way out by calling and go off on favorable flops. Raising here is more +EV as it gives you the best chance of winning.

[bakku]

What Chris said. Also, overcards that hit the flop look just as scary to you as it does to the limper when he doesn't have one of those cards.

[AdamL]

CDC, Bakku,

So do you guys recommend 3-betting the flop and leading out on the turn with 88 when cards like J's, Q's K's and A's come on the flop and you are raised? (Assuming it is heads up)

Just how far should I be pushing with 88 on scary boards and when is it normally ok to back off?

Adam

[AdamL]

just a bump