20+2 Bubble. Standard Plays?

[SmileyEH]

I left this one kind of stunned. I don't mean for this to be a bad beat post as there aren't any bad beats, just on the lookout for leaks.


***** Hand History for Game 891256512 *****
jayman73 finished in fifth place.
200/400 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 5515777) - Sun Aug 29 03:09:18 EDT 2004
Table Table 13981 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 3: dmaparty (2630)
Seat 4: gsully (2145)
Seat 6: buglboy9 (1025)
Seat 7: SmileyEH1 (2200)
buglboy9 posts small blind (100)
SmileyEH1 posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmileyEH1 [ As, Ad ]
dmaparty calls (200)
gsully folds.
buglboy9 folds.
SmileyEH1 raises (600) to 800
dmaparty calls (600)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Kh, Qc, 9d ]
SmileyEH1 bets (1400)
SmileyEH1 is all-In.
dmaparty folds.
Creating Main Pot with $3100 with SmileyEH1
** Summary **
Main Pot: 3100
Board: [ Kh Qc 9d ]
dmaparty balance 1830, lost 800 (folded)
gsully balance 2145, didn't bet (folded)
buglboy9 balance 925, lost 100 (folded)
SmileyEH1 balance 3100, bet 2200, collected 3100, net +900

***** Hand History for Game 891258055 *****
200/400 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 5515777) - Sun Aug 29 03:09:57 EDT 2004
Table Table 13981 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 3: dmaparty (1830)
Seat 4: gsully (2145)
Seat 6: buglboy9 (925)
Seat 7: SmileyEH1 (3100)
SmileyEH1 posts small blind (100)
dmaparty posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmileyEH1 [ 4c, Kc ]
gsully folds.
buglboy9 folds.
SmileyEH1 raises (500) to 600
dmaparty raises (1630) to 1830
dmaparty is all-In.
SmileyEH1 folds.
Creating Main Pot with $2430 with dmaparty
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2430
dmaparty balance 2430, bet 1830, collected 2430, net +600
gsully balance 2145, didn't bet (folded)
buglboy9 balance 925, didn't bet (folded)
SmileyEH1 balance 2500, lost 600 (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 891259260 *****
200/400 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 5515777) - Sun Aug 29 03:10:27 EDT 2004
Table Table 13981 (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 3: dmaparty (2430)
Seat 4: gsully (2145)
Seat 6: buglboy9 (925)
Seat 7: SmileyEH1 (2500)
dmaparty posts small blind (100)
gsully posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmileyEH1 [ Td, 6s ]
buglboy9 folds.
SmileyEH1 folds.
dmaparty calls (100)
gsully checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 9h, Kd, 4s ]
dmaparty checks.
gsully checks.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 3s ]
dmaparty bets (200)
gsully folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 600
Board: [ 9h Kd 4s 3s ]
dmaparty balance 2630, bet 400, collected 600, net +200
gsully balance 1945, lost 200 (folded)
buglboy9 balance 925, didn't bet (folded)
SmileyEH1 balance 2500, didn't bet (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 891260626 *****
200/400 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 5515777) - Sun Aug 29 03:11:01 EDT 2004
Table Table 13981 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 3: dmaparty (2630)
Seat 4: gsully (1945)
Seat 6: buglboy9 (925)
Seat 7: SmileyEH1 (2500)
gsully posts small blind (100)
buglboy9 posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmileyEH1 [ 9s, 2c ]
SmileyEH1 folds.
dmaparty calls (200)
gsully raises (600) to 700
buglboy9 folds.
dmaparty calls (500)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Th, Jc, 4s ]
gsully bets (1245)
gsully is all-In.
dmaparty calls (1245)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 3c ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 6d ]
Creating Main Pot with $4090 with gsully
** Summary **
Main Pot: 4090 |
Board: [ Th Jc 4s 3c 6d ]
dmaparty balance 685, lost 1945 [ 2d 2s ] [ a pair of twos -- Jc,Th,6d,2d,2s ]
gsully balance 4090, bet 1945, collected 4090, net +2145 [ Ah Jd ] [ a pair of jacks -- Ah,Jd,Jc,Th,6d ]
buglboy9 balance 725, lost 200 (folded)
SmileyEH1 balance 2500, didn't bet (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 891262149 *****
SmileyEH1: nh
200/400 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 5515777) - Sun Aug 29 03:11:38 EDT 2004
Table Table 13981 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 3: dmaparty (685)
Seat 4: gsully (4090)
Seat 6: buglboy9 (725)
Seat 7: SmileyEH1 (2500)
buglboy9 posts small blind (100)
SmileyEH1 posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmileyEH1 [ 4c, 8c ]
dmaparty folds.
gsully folds.
buglboy9 raises (625) to 725
buglboy9 is all-In.
SmileyEH1 folds.
Creating Main Pot with $925 with buglboy9
** Summary **
Main Pot: 925
dmaparty balance 685, didn't bet (folded)
gsully balance 4090, didn't bet (folded)
buglboy9 balance 925, bet 725, collected 925, net +200 [ Ah Jd ] [ high card ace -- Ah,Jd ]
SmileyEH1 balance 2300, lost 200 (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 891262961 *****
200/400 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 5515777) - Sun Aug 29 03:11:59 EDT 2004
Table Table 13981 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 3: dmaparty (685)
Seat 4: gsully (4090)
Seat 6: buglboy9 (925)
Seat 7: SmileyEH1 (2300)
SmileyEH1 posts small blind (100)
dmaparty posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmileyEH1 [ Qh, 9h ]
SmileyEH1: 83
gsully folds.
buglboy9 folds.
SmileyEH1 raises (2200) to 2300
SmileyEH1 is all-In.
dmaparty calls (485)
dmaparty is all-In.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Kc, Qd, Tc ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Ah ]
** Dealing River ** : [ Ad ]
Creating Main Pot with $1370 with dmaparty
Creating Side Pot 1 with $1615 with SmileyEH1
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1370 | Side Pot 1: 1615
Board: [ Kc Qd Tc Ah Ad ]
dmaparty balance 1370, bet 685, collected 1370, net +685 [ 5c As ] [ three of a kind, aces -- As,Ah,Ad,Kc,Qd ]
gsully balance 4090, didn't bet (folded)
buglboy9 balance 925, didn't bet (folded)
SmileyEH1 balance 1615, bet 2300, collected 1615, lost -685 [ Qh 9h ] [ two pairs, aces and queens -- Ah,Ad,Kc,Qh,Qd ]

***** Hand History for Game 891263726 *****
200/400 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 5515777) - Sun Aug 29 03:12:17 EDT 2004
Table Table 13981 (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 3: dmaparty (1370)
Seat 4: gsully (4090)
Seat 6: buglboy9 (925)
Seat 7: SmileyEH1 (1615)
dmaparty posts small blind (100)
gsully posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmileyEH1 [ Kc, Ts ]
buglboy9 raises (925) to 925
buglboy9 is all-In.
SmileyEH1 folds.
dmaparty raises (1270) to 1370
dmaparty is all-In.
gsully folds.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 4c, 5d, Js ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 3d ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 4d ]
SmileyEH1: boring
Creating Main Pot with $2050 with buglboy9
Creating Side Pot 1 with $445 with dmaparty
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2050 | Side Pot 1: 445
Board: [ 4c 5d Js 3d 4d ]
dmaparty balance 1470, bet 1370, collected 1470, net +100 [ As 9h ] [ a pair of fours -- As,Js,9h,4c,4d ]
gsully balance 3890, lost 200 (folded)
buglboy9 balance 1025, bet 925, collected 1025, net +100 [ Ad 9c ] [ a pair of fours -- Ad,Js,9c,4c,4d ]
SmileyEH1 balance 1615, didn't bet (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 891264955 *****
200/400 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 5515777) - Sun Aug 29 03:12:48 EDT 2004
Table Table 13981 (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 3: dmaparty (1470)
Seat 4: gsully (3890)
Seat 6: buglboy9 (1025)
Seat 7: SmileyEH1 (1615)
gsully posts small blind (100)
buglboy9 posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmileyEH1 [ 5h, Kc ]
SmileyEH1 folds.
dmaparty folds.
gsully folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 300
dmaparty balance 1470, didn't bet (folded)
gsully balance 3790, lost 100 (folded)
buglboy9 balance 1125, bet 200, collected 300, net +100
SmileyEH1 balance 1615, didn't bet (folded)

***** Hand History for Game 891265497 *****
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 5515777) - Sun Aug 29 03:13:01 EDT 2004
Table Table 13981 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 3: dmaparty (1470)
Seat 4: gsully (3790)
Seat 6: buglboy9 (1125)
Seat 7: SmileyEH1 (1615)
buglboy9 posts small blind (150)
SmileyEH1 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmileyEH1 [ Kc, 9s ]
dmaparty folds.
gsully folds.
buglboy9 raises (975) to 1125
buglboy9 is all-In.
SmileyEH1 calls (825)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 3h, 5c, Qs ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 7s ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 4h ]
Creating Main Pot with $2250 with buglboy9
** Summary **
Main Pot: 2250 |
Board: [ 3h 5c Qs 7s 4h ]
dmaparty balance 1470, didn't bet (folded)
gsully balance 3790, didn't bet (folded)
buglboy9 balance 2250, bet 1125, collected 2250, net +1125 [ Ac 8s ] [ high card ace -- Ac,Qs,8s,7s,5c ]
SmileyEH1 balance 490, lost 1125 [ Kc 9s ] [ high card king -- Kc,Qs,9s,7s,5c ]

***** Hand History for Game 891266339 *****
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 5515777) - Sun Aug 29 03:13:23 EDT 2004
Table Table 13981 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 3: dmaparty (1470)
Seat 4: gsully (3790)
Seat 6: buglboy9 (2250)
Seat 7: SmileyEH1 (490)
SmileyEH1 posts small blind (150)
dmaparty posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SmileyEH1 [ Th, Js ]
gsully folds.
buglboy9 folds.
SmileyEH1 raises (340) to 490
SmileyEH1 is all-In.
dmaparty calls (190)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 4s, 8d, 7c ]
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5d ]
** Dealing River ** : [ 8h ]
Creating Main Pot with $980 with SmileyEH1
** Summary **
Main Pot: 980 |
Board: [ 4s 8d 7c 5d 8h ]
dmaparty balance 1960, bet 490, collected 980, net +490 [ 3c Qh ] [ a pair of eights with queen kicker -- Qh,8d,8h,7c,5dQh(kicker card) ]
gsully balance 3790, didn't bet (folded)
buglboy9 balance 2250, didn't bet (folded)
SmileyEH1 balance 0, lost 490 [ Th Js ] [ a pair of eights -- Js,Th,8d,8h,7c ]

[SmileyEH]

anyone?

[curtains]

One minor detail..on the final hand I wuold just call and then push allin on the flop. No chance hes folding preflop, but some small chance he folds on flop for 190, if he has absolutely nothing.

[chill888]

Calling 975 raise with K9 in that position is horribly loose IMHO. Just asking to be made the shortstack.

[SmileyEH]

The K9o hand was the one I was most unsure about. I had more than enough pot odds to make the call (2-1) and I put my opponent on exactly what he had making me a better than 2-1 underdog. Mathematically the call was correct, but I'm unsure whether a bubble situation swings these marginal calls into folds. I dont think it does but again I'm open to other opinions.

I'm not sure what AJ hand you are talking about as I didn't have AJ throughout the bubble...

-SmileyEH

[chill888]

Misread AA as AJ - already edited the post sorry.

As to reading the guy correctly as having a better hand than you ... even more good reason to fold. You had him covered but not by much and losing the hand made you huge favourite to be on wrong side of bubble. He could just have easily had K 10, A9 etc, where you are in horrible shaape. K9 is a terrible hand and you don't want to make a call where you are likely an underdog that moves you from 2nd to 4th. Part of bubble play is tightening up against any and all raises. (Although even off the bubble this is a bad call).

I was trying to brainstorm the minimum I would have needed to call in that situation. Not sure, depends on opponent, but would have folded even hands like KQ there and probably A10.


Often you can raise with almost anything, but calling requires far more. The only winners when you called were the 2 guys not involved.

Here's a point for discussion:

Even if he had a hand like QJ and had flashed them, I would have probably folded. On the theory that the only guys that would like those hands are your 2 opponents that are not involed in hand. Thoughts?

Good luck and regards

[SmileyEH]

I think we are approaching the bubble in different ways...ie; I want to win the tourney so I'm primarily interested in gathering chips (the SB shows 55 making me a 55-45 underdog I call in a shot for the pot odds).

Right now I'm unsure which is more profitable EV wise.

-SmileyEH

[chill888]

Yes, we are approaching it differently.

I get lots of 3rds and 1sts and less 2nds, Cause I playe tight aggressive with four left, and much much more aggressive with 3 left. I believe this is correct because the increases in payout are most from 4th to 3rd and 1st to 2nd.

But no matter how you play it, your call with k9 is sacrificing an awful lot for a too much risk BUT JUST IN MY OPINION.

See my next post.