Did I Play like a Wimp?

30-60 holdem Commerce. Two limpers and I raise

with black Kings. Small blind and limpers call.


Flop comes 5h 3h 2s


Small blind bets, one limper calls, and I call.


The board on the turn is 5c 5h 3h 2s


Small blind bets, limper calls, and I call.


A King comes on the river and SB checks, limper

bets, and I raise. Limper calls and obviously

my hand is good.


My thinking was to wait until the turn to raise

assuming a blank came. I wasn't crazy about the

flop and raising wasn't going to eliminate anyone.

When the top card pairs the board I am now in

either really bad shape or I still have the best

hand. My river play is pretty straightforward.


Comments appreciated.


Bruce

This was played very poorly. you must raise on the flop or at least on the turn, to elimate the people drawing with an A, 4 or 6 and who only need one card.


the pot is definitely big enough on the flop so that you must focus on taking down the money. this is not exactly a "staggered" flop -- you have to raise the drawing hands out!!


furthermore, if someone raises the flop or turn, you call, right? if that is the case, better to raise yourself!!!!!! this is as basic as, say, 2+2!


Joe

Bruce


Wait one round to raise is fine but I wouldn’t argue with a flop raise. The key is how likely the flop bettor will follow through on the turn. You want him to lead again, as you are very strong unless an ace, heart or five comes.


When the five hits the turn, you have a problem. The SB knows that the five or the rest of the flop could not hit you. Thus, if you raise, he knows that the most you can have is a big overpair or perhaps a big flush draw. If he has the trips or better he reraises, but if he doesn’t a tough opponent will sometimes reraise too. Some of the time he will have a draw with overcards, and some of those raises will be with a partially busted made hand (such as A3 or A2 suited). He might reraise with a hand such as 44, knowing he has outs even if you call. So you need to call him down when he reraises


But some of the time your turn raise will get him to lay down hands with few outs. For example, he could have a medium overpair (e.g., 77). A decent player may lay this down against your turn raise, and obviously you would rather get one more big bet out of this sort of hand.


Also note that if he has a draw and you just call the turn bet, he might bluff bet the river. Since you will call both the turn and river, you won’t often lose a bet against a busted draw and will save a bet against a draw that gets there.


IMO, your turn call if fine.


Regards,


Rick

After the hand was over I had this feeling that

I did not play the hand correctly. But having had

a chance to reflect further I am not sure if further aggression is warranted. I didn't raise

on the flop for several reasons. I mainly wanted

to see what the turn would bring. With a highly

coordinated flop like that probably over half the

deck would make someone elses hand if they didn't

already flop a wheel. If a blank comes on the turn with only one card to come I am now a big

favorite. Raising on the flop wasn't going to

eliminate anyone since I was the button. Now

let's say I raise and it comes back to me capped,

what is my best course of action? Obviously

I won't throw my hand away, but I now have two

big bets committed with two cards to come when

there aren't too many safe cards. On the turn

with the Five pairing I potentially may be drawing

to a King. Raising doesn't accomplish anything.

I am not going to eliminate a better hand and if

both of my players are on draws they are going to

call. Obviously if they are on draws then I have

just lost equity. This was a highly aggessive

game and if I raise it may come back to me costing

me two more big bets then I have a real difficult

decision to make. Just some food for thought.


Bruce

Missed raises on turn and flop. Either street you could have raised. Woefully underplayed.

although i would normally opt for raising on the turn. raising on the flop here is absurd.

Raising the flop here is incorrect with KcKs. Your raise has no potential to drive out draws, including a lone Ace. The idea that you "must raise the flop to drive out the drawing hands" is simplistic and does not take into account the texture of the flop. It is a primitive "I have an overpair therefore I raise" reflex.


The turn card is not as scary as it looks. It's true that the top card paired, but it's only a 5 which is unlikely to be in anybody's hand. I think it's more likely that the small blind was betting a 4, a heart draw, or pocket pair 66-QQ. I think you can safely raise the turn here.