Why do so many aspiring poker professionals fail to go the distance?

[Ray Of Light]

A lot of poker players, whether they are professional or semi-professional, tend to all agreed that poker is a hard way to make an easy living (as the saying goes)... but why is that?

I am not a poker professional, nor do I ever see myself becoming one. However, I am self-employed, and I see a poker career as having the same pitfalls as anyone who becomes self employed or decides to start a business.

If a poker career is essentially a 'home-based' business, what is it that makes it inherantly more difficult than say setting up a high street shop, or an online business? Don't the same principles that apply to small businesses apply in equal measure to a poker career, principles such as finding regular customers, maintaining positive cashflow, putting in lengthy hours and so on?

I don't believe that a poker career is easy by any means, but I have difficulty understanding why it would be harder than any other self-employed job, where from month to month you regularly risk your own money in the pursuit of earning more... /images/graemlins/confused.gif

I'm sorry if this topic has already been discussed, but past threads that I have found, have mostly covered the moral aspect of a poker career (giving back to society, finding the positive aspects in your work). I would just like to get other players views on the practicality of poker as a career...

[Jezebel]

I think there is one big difference between running a small business and playing poker for a living.

With a small business you can earn a decent living even if you are only average in your field.

With poker you have to be above average just to show a profit. In order to make a living at it you need to be well above average. It takes a long time to determine if you are that good or not. Longer than most believe.

So the short answer as to why most don't make it is that they just aren't good enough. Due to the economics of the situation only a small percent can play for a living.

[Gregg777]

Too many people play short term and think they are good, get in it too deep, and when they eventually learn they aren't that good, decide it's not right for them.

[Gramps]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't the same principles that apply to small businesses apply in equal measure to a poker career, principles such as finding regular customers, maintaining positive cashflow, putting in lengthy hours and so on?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think to make it long-term in poker, you have to have a good work ethic and be disciplined in managing your money (live below your means, have adequate bankroll for the stakes you play, etc.). Lots of people attracted to the poker profession lack one or both (or they do it some of the time, but not all of the time). In my semi-informed opinion at least.

[MiloBloom72]

I believe one reason is because poker is essentially a performance-based activity, like music or sports. It is a competition that takes place in real time with real opponents who are trying to take your money at the same time you are trying to take theirs.

Yes, if you are running your own business, you have a lot of work to do, and you are certainly in danger of losing your investment (financial and otherwise) if you screw up, and you probably have competing businesses who would be happy to take your lunch money. But I think the real-time nature of poker leads to a higher stress & pressure level than non-performance activities. Bookkeepers may have to work fast & accurately, but they generally can go back and fix any mistakes they make. You make a mistake on a poker hand, the best you can hope is that it will be a learning experience so you don't do it again.

[JTG51]

Why do so many aspiring poker professionals fail to go the distance?

Because most of them aren't good enough.

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of poker players, whether they are professional or semi-professional, tend to all agreed that poker is a hard way to make an easy living (as the saying goes)... but why is that?

I am not a poker professional, nor do I ever see myself becoming one. However, I am self-employed, and I see a poker career as having the same pitfalls as anyone who becomes self employed or decides to start a business.

If a poker career is essentially a 'home-based' business, what is it that makes it inherantly more difficult than say setting up a high street shop, or an online business? Don't the same principles that apply to small businesses apply in equal measure to a poker career, principles such as finding regular customers, maintaining positive cashflow, putting in lengthy hours and so on?

I don't believe that a poker career is easy by any means, but I have difficulty understanding why it would be harder than any other self-employed job, where from month to month you regularly risk your own money in the pursuit of earning more... /images/graemlins/confused.gif

I'm sorry if this topic has already been discussed, but past threads that I have found, have mostly covered the moral aspect of a poker career (giving back to society, finding the positive aspects in your work). I would just like to get other players views on the practicality of poker as a career...

[/ QUOTE ]

Only about 10% of all new businesses actually succeed...

[Blarg]

True.

Many businesses can be run on close to auto-pilot, too. Quite a few business owners can be found at the poker tables in casinos all day, letting other sometimes only mediocre employees run their business. Heck, many businesses run much better when their owner isn't there!

Definitely can't say the same for poker.

And it's also true that it's easier to recognize the freedom of poker than the discipline. To be fair, not many people I know or most people are likely to meet are all that disciplined about their "bankrolls" either, whether they're poker players or not.

[dogmeat]

You make a good case for poker being like a small business. A small business takes a bankroll to get started, unfortunately, most poker players don't have a bankroll when they start. They just begin playing, build up a bit and then find out how tough it is to keep winning. Lack of discipline is a major factor. Mixing rent money with poker money is a problem for most. Playing too high for their bankroll is another. FWIW, 87% of all small businesses in the US fail within their first 6 months. Major reason? ****Undercapitalization - just like poker players! *****

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[cardspeak]

Most small business owners also fail to go the distance. If I remember correctly, the failure rate of new small business start-ups is about 80% within five years. So, I don't agree that one needs to just be average to be successful. Perhaps that idea is at the root of so many business failures (folks imagine it isn't that hard). Actually, IMO one needs to be above average and not unlucky...just like poker.

Business ventures can often suck sizable losses month after month, finally exhausting whatever capital(bankroll?) was obtained (loans, second-job income, etc.)

I agree with the comments elsewhere about the real-time nature of poker being a unique aspect of this endeavor. However, most self-employed ventures have significant overheads (lease for the office or store, equipment, advertising, etc.) which means you are losing money if you aren't making sales or securing contracts for services. One can assign an hourly expense rate for any business, which means that you can be losing, say, $100/hour every hour of every day whether you're making sales or not. That should be felt as a "real-time" experience, but it rarely is. Thus, I suggest it is illusory that having a business is any easier than poker. Poker is simply far more dramatic and visceral in its' impact of wildly fluctuating fortune. In business, one can create the illusion of success through busyness and all the projects that take months to fully come to fruition. In poker we have no such luxury--we either made money or lost it.

[x2ski]

Excellent point... Well then, how close is that to day-trading? Or even wealth management as a whole, whether it be for days or years at a time?

It doesn't matter whether or not you are a poker player, wealth manager, flower shop owner, chiropractor, etc. to realize that above average performance is what really determines a winner from a loser.

Poker can indeed be a profession for many people who are above average relative to the limit they are playing. The 2+2 forums are like a college, available to anyone who wants to study hard, get good grades and graduate to a level that either supplements their income or to rely on it entirely.

I am not trying to blow a friggin' horn though either... my bankroll currently sits at a measly $990. 4 months ago I began at Stars $.05/$.10 with $10 and, after more than 120,000 hands (and not one single re-buy), I am consistently winning at Party $1/$2. I thank everyone at 2+2 for my accompilshments far. According to poker tracker, if I throw down 1,000 hands a day, I could easily be making $35,000 a year at $1/$2 (multi-tabling of course).

davidross showed everyone that a handsome living is indeed possible if you pretty much play $3/$6 exclusively, but few have the discipline and experience to achieve that; however, it is possible.

My opinion as that most people who fail to make the transistion from semi-pro to pro would also fail in any small business... They lack the ability (or will) to take risks

[helpmeout]

Both are farely similar, especially the 10% success rate.

1. Both need a great deal of research and planning.
2. Both require money management skills.
3. Both require a lot of hard work.

Poker differs in that you need to concentrate for long periods throughout the day. You can go to work tired or not feeling well and it will make little difference. Poker however will require you to be alert and mentally stable at all times.

[Baulucky]

I can tell you that the most difficult part for some (me especially!) is to put in the hours. I admire people like Ross who claim to put 12-14K hands per week. After 6 months of average 800 hands per day, I'm burned out but need to keep playing. It really is simple to make $100 average per day playing 1-2. $3K per month tax free is enough for me to live. Notice I used the word simple, not easy. It ain't easy, it's a pain in the ass (both literally and not).

It stops being fun and a game very soon. And I take no risks really and play well below my bankroll against 90% bad players. It doesn't get any easier.

I recently moved to 2-4 and it's just as easy and just as tedious. I may take a few weeks break and play 3-6 for less hours per day or for less days per week.

[x2ski]

Glad to hear that $2-$4 is similar to $1-$2, although I figured as much. I just want to get my 10,000 hands in before I make the move up.

I agree it is tedious, and things tend to get in the way of poker that prevents me from making my $100 a day (my real job, for example). But it is tolerable, and much better than sitting around wasting time watching TV, so I don't find 1k-2k hands a day too hard to accomplish, as long as I have the time.