Should the 3-bet on the turn froze me like it did?

[Gomez22]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Gomez22 is CO with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, <font color="CC3333">Gomez22 3-bets</font>, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, <font color="CC3333">Gomez22 raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="CC3333">Gomez22 caps</font>, Button calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (16.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">Gomez22 raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, Gomez22 calls, Button calls.

River: (25.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, Gomez22 checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 25.25 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 25.25 BB, between UTG+1, Gomez22 and Button.</font>

A few words here about UTG+1: He wasn't a bad player or a maniac, but sometimes he DID tend to overplay hands a little. I also should state that I've seen him trap with 2 set earlier in this session, and to tell the truth, I couldn't tell if he was a good player or a buffoon who caught some really good cards.

When he 3-bet the turn, I called for 2 reasons (which may be totally wrong).....
1-I thought there was now somewhat a reasonable chance that I was behind in the hand, although I had no idea what I would be behind to, besides a set of 10s, or a badly played flopped gutshot. A set of 3s or 2s wasn't out of the question, but I felt it not likely due to the pre-flop action.
2-I was between UTG+1 and button, who called 3 cold PF and called 2 cold on the flop, then called 2 more after I capped the flop.

Basically, I didn't like being between a player that was playing in a brazen manner here and a player behind that cold-called everything.... it all smelled (no pun intended) "fishy" to me.

After UTG+1 checked the river, I couldn't figure out whether he was checking because his hand was weak, or because he wanted to check-raise here, as the only draw that came through was a gutshot.

This hand jsut had me miffed during play.....

Any thoughts?

[cold_cash]

I think I would slow down also. You've shown an awful lot of agression yet he doesn't seem overly concerned.

The presence of the Button is also concerning, but it doesn't look like you're getting rid of him no matter what you do.

If I had to guess I would put UTG+1 on a set, but I have no clue what the Button has. It seems unlikely he would have 2-pair after calling 3 bets cold pre-flop, but I guess anything's possible.

Best guess, unless these guys are both brain dead, is that you're in the middle of a set over set situation, which is always a big zero on the fun scale.

The river check by UTG+1 doesn't seem like a check-raise attempt to me. After all his agression I imagine he would be too concerned it would get checked around. This leads me to believe he's still got a set, just not top set, and he's ready to show it down.

I'd check and call the river and faint if I won.

[Entity]

Boy. Tough hand. I think A /images/graemlins/heart.gif T /images/graemlins/heart.gif is a possible hand for a situation like this for UTG+1, and he might not even think he's overplaying it. If he overplays his hands, I can't see him checking this river -- that's more of the hallmark of a busted draw or a weak made hand than a set, IMO.

I like the check behind at this point, though, due to Button's presence. If you value bet, Button calls, and you get check-raised, you're now in a VERY ugly position.

Rob

[Nemesis]

I bet the river after checked to me, but maybe i'm a little wreckless w/ value bets. I definately call the turn raise though.

[mmbt0ne]

Did the button have JJ? I just find it hard to believe that he would cold call all those bets pre-flop with A-10, or K-10, and then continue to call you down after you've shown all that aggression. The only other thing I can think of is QQ, but I would have expected him to cap that pre-flop.

[Gomez22]

UTG+1 shows J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif
Button shows A /images/graemlins/spade.gif 10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I couldn't believe it... and to think, I coulda won 2 more bets on the river..... ugh.

[cold_cash]

Your read on UTG+1 was certainly on the money.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
Your read on UTG+1 was certainly on the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had the suits wrong. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Problem is, I probably still would've checked behind on that river, because of the damned Button. Blargh.

Rob

[cold_cash]

Obviously by my response to this initial thread I have a big problem of giving my opponents far too much credit; this kind of raises a question I've had for awhile.

When you guys first sit down at the table, do you assume everyone is bad to worse, or do you initially give the other players credit for being "decent" players until proven otherwise?

[Jaran]

Hey Cold,
I assume my opponents suck until they prove me wrong. Ususally this is a correct assumption /images/graemlins/grin.gif

-Jaran