Turn Decision : Big pot, big field, right to call 2 cold?

[Billy Liar]

No reads on players in the pot.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (12 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero ???

[Dr_Freeze]

I think with a big pot, a lot of players, low pair, and the nut straight draw, you have to raise the turn yourself. Then you might have an easier decision on the river.

As it stands, I think you can safely fold for two bets cold.

-Freeze

[Surfbullet]

The turn was checked to him - how can he raise? Even so, he shouldn't - a flop raise would be for value but on the turn he wants to get to draw cheaply.

Furthermore he is getting almost 10:1 to call the turn, which should be enough to cover his straight draw despite the possibility of it already being out there.

Surf

[Dr_Freeze]

I misread the action...

Looking over it again, I think a good line is to re-raise the flop and bet out on the turn, prepared to call a raise if necessary. This line should slow down the turn action, allowing you to see the river more cheaply.

I still think cold-calling two on the turn is marginal here, because of the likelihood of a split pot if the straight does get there, the chance that 9's are no good as outs if the Broadway's already out there, not to mention the 2 flush draws on the board.

This leaves us with 2 A outs to the nuts (which might split the pot anyway), 2 A outs which complete a flush draw, the 10's which might not be good if the made straight is there or if they complete a flush, and the 9's which again, might make someones flush.

I don't know how to actually count those true "outs", but all of these factors detract from the pot odds that you are actually getting on the turn call.

-Freeze

[cnfuzzd]

Just for the record, i fold this preflop except in late position. In better position you would have more options and information available to you. Also, no one has *ever* accused me of being tight.

peace

john nickle