I'm not going to take it anymore!

Let's say you raise at $20-40 and everyone folds to the big blind and he asks for one chip back. Most players, when they ask, they are figuring to fold anyway. But this one guy, relentlessly aggressive, he really means it. He will absolutely never fold for one bet, and he knows I know he won't, and even though he sprays chips, he's not all that bad a player, so when he asked for one back, I said okay, liking the idea of locking up some profit without a fight.


Then an hour later, same thing. I raised and he was last to act in the big blind. This time, he asked again, and I said no, I don't want to make this a habit. Let's play. He says okay and he calls my preflop cutoff openraise. I have 88.


The flop comes 9-9-3 twotone. He checks, I bet, he calls. Vibes said I had the best hand, but I'm usually careful not to be too sure with him.


Turn comes a seven, putting two flush draws on board. He checks, I bet, he checkraises.


Screw it. I reraise. He says, okay, gamble, and makes it four bets. At this point my read was that one of us had the other one beat. So I went into a confident call-down mode. I called the fourbet on the turn. He bet the river, I called, he tapped the table, I turned over my pair, and on to the next hand.


Makes me wonder about laying down to reraises on the turn!


Tommy

A nice setup. Yes, I would have folded on the checkraise.

Is there a point to this story?


vince

tommy, just wanna say


i love your posts and your stories, keep em coming


nice play and nice read.

I was in a game. 7.50-15.00 Pink game at the Trop in AC.


It was shorthanded. I raise from SB with QsQc


he calls from BB


Flop comes 8h 6h 5s.


ON the flop I bet and he raised.

I reraised.


He said " I wanna gamble." and reraises.


At this point I'm saying in my mind, this guy has to have a big draw. but not a hand good enough to reraise me Preflop, I call.


On the turn, comes Jh.


I check he bets.


And stubbornly I call.


River comes rag.


I check call.


He turns over Kh7h.


and beat me.


Moral of the story is. When he said, "I wanna gamble meant he was on a draw" and it was good enough to reraise me. I paid him off, when i know I shouldn't have.


those words, "I wanna gamble" usually mean, I'm on a draw, a big draw.

He had a lot of outs, probably a straight and a flush draw.


-thats what I make out of these comments.


-in your situation the fact that he says "I wanna gamble, means his hand isn't complete yet." but he can beat you on the river.

That's tough to play perfectly heads-up, but I'm sure you already know that the Pink game is like a gold mine when you do finally snag a big pot.

I love his read also.


"At this point my read was that one of us had the other one beat. "


That's beautiful Tommy. Great post. Ni Han Sur!

You have to becareful here and a reraise on your part on the turn is good, but also you knew when to stop. He could still outdraw you and at that point and if he has a str flush draw, he's not much of a dog. You played the hand fine, but you could have been easily beat.


Nice Pot though.

I haven't read the other posts, but it is obvious to me that when you have specific information about a player's characteristics, that is what should guide your decision.


What you describe above is one of these situations. You already knew that this player was capable of three betting the turn as a bluff. Thus you must call. Against an unknown player, or most others that you do know, I bet your hand would quickly hit the muck.


Best wishes,

Mason

thats classic haha

i'm relatively new to this forum, where does ni han come from btw /images/smile.gif ? (obviously means nice hand but was just wondering where this started)

I don't know who the first to post it here was, but Tommy used it once or twice in a response to me when I made a possibly questionable play that turned out to be a winner. Seemed appropriate here.


It apparently comes from Asian players on the West coast saying "Nice Hand Sir" with a heavy accent.

"Against an unknown player, or most others that you do know, I bet your hand would quickly hit the muck."


You are so right. And against this guy too for that matter, except this one time. I suspect he'll get his money back in lose calls I make down the road. Those dang bluffers.


Tommy

Kh7h is a substantial favorite against QsQc on that flop. Your opponent should win more than 60% of the time. So, you are actually the one gambling with the worst of it. Your opponent actually played expert poker by getting as much money into the pot on the flop.

"except for this one time"


The cry of the true "addict". Never again, never again...never again...never..never..except.... for this one time"


Vince

...Exactly the opposite is true. "Against an unknown player, or most others that you do know, I bet your hand would quickly hit the muck."

Yes he did play Expert Poker, but if he was an Expert, he wouldn't have called my raise with K7h, and he wouldn't have talked during the hand.

I think if you fold in the big blind holding K7 suited with position against a preflop shorthanded open raiser in the SB, its a long term losing play. You are getting 3 to 1 odds with position, in a situation where the raisers holdings are often marginal.

He lost a few cents of EV on his preflop call, nothing more. Plus, he has position on you. Folding would be unconscionable if his postflop play is better than yours, unless QQ is the worst hand you'll raise with preflop in a headsup situation.

In a shorthanded game, folding K7s in the BB headsup vs the SB is unfathomable to me. He played the hand fabulously, especially with his 4 bet on the flop.


********************************************


For Uston:


"If raising for a free card is right, then 4 betting for a free card must be right too" /images/smile.gif


(Inside joke between Uston and myself)

Do you think bad players could even out expectations with a lot of ramming and jamming?

There are only three acceptable responses to that comment.


1) I agree.

2) No doy.

3) It's even more right.

catsclaw,


great question!


that game is so frustrating that 40 at commerce. it's tough! it's so hard to put people on hands! it makes me want to tear my hair out!


the way that game (usually) goes, it just makes you want to play overly loose and dizzingly aggressive since that's how everyone else plays. even the bad players tend to play very aggressive and anyone playing aggressive makes for a much tougher opponent.


id like to watch some of the true experts here (mason, tommy, gee that's about it oh well) play this game and see how they handle some of the tough spots theyd get in.


now that i think about it dynasty and catsclaw are pretty close to expert too. were you able to beat that game long term when you were playing it catsclaw?

No--I wasn't. It was tough. Part of the problem is that I have other hobbies and interests (and a regular full-time job), so perhaps I wasn't able

to really be focused.


Plus I'm not sure that my game is very good.


BTW, I may give the Bellagio a whirl next weekend.

...is by far the toughest game ive come across.


my sense is that youll find the bellagio 30 and mirage 20 to be far far easier to beat.

I'll try them both. I've never played at the Mirage since the Bellagio opened.


Also, I may a little blackjack there as well.