beginner NL theory

[rsliu]

I'm relatively new to poker, so I started off by reading Theory of Poker and Super System. I play in a home game cash no limit low stakes with a consistent group of friends. I try to play tight aggressive- if I'm going to play a hand, I'll raise preflop unless I have suited connectors or pockets. I follow Doyle's advice of betting 90% of the time on the flop if I'm the preflop raiser, and usually I'll semibluff if I limped in as well. At first, people would fold to me constantly, and I'd be making money. But lately my opponents have caught on and will often call/raise me on the flop. As a result, the bluffs/semibluffs that Brunson and Sklansky both advocate are no longer profitable because opponent folding percentage reduces to near zero. What should I do in these situations? Sklansky advocates folding if you semibluff bet and your opponent raises, but I suspect my opponents are often semibluff raising, so I'll be folding a lot. On the other hand, if I call the semibluff raise, I'm probably at best even money to win, and since I feel the quality of opposition on the whole is pretty weak, this is a losing proposition to me.

Since I can't make my opponents fold, should I start playing super tight and wait for monster hands? If so, what kind of starting hands should I do this with?

Also, I'm wondering how to play PPs correctly when you flop the set but there's a straight or flush draw on the board and no overcards. I generally do not raise PPs preflop, so usually when the set hits there isn't a lot of money at the table. I feel that its wrong to slowplay and give my opponents a free card, but at the same time I know if i bet enough I'll almost certainly end up only winning a small pot. My understanding of why PPs are so good is because of their deceptive value; people don't expect the set so they'll give you action. I want action from TPTK and overcards in the hole but not from draws. What should I do?

[Choven]

I don't have TOP or SS near me, but I think you over played the semibluffs. Semibluffs are used: 1) when there's a possibility everyone will fold; 2) if you are called, you can still draw to the best hand. Both Sklansky and Doyle advocate AGAINST doing the same thing repeatedly. As Sklansky mentions in TOP, if you always try to raise on the button to steal the blinds, the blinds will soon recognize it and put a play on you. What you can do is tone back your semibluffs and check/call a bit more on the flop even with your big hands. Don't take this point too far. Check your big hands maybe 25% of the time and semi-bluff 75% of the time. If you get re-raise when you have a big hand, just call 25%. Hopefully, your opponents will become confused and you'll tear up the game again.

With PP, you'll get as many answers as there are books on Poker. I tend to test the waters with a set by either betting or raising 1/2 pot to full pot, depending on the number of players. If you get more than two callers or an all-in, I'd be worried someone has the made flush or is drawing to the nut flush. Moreover, if more than 4 players saw the flop, there's a good possibility some has the flush or at least a draw to it. If that's the case, just muck your set and wait for the next hand.

Lastly, I'd advise you to read TOP and SS over and over. It sounds like you have the basic concepts, but you're missing the details. For example, you can't always limp with suited connectors and PP while raising with everything else, because observant opponents will identify your style and capitalize on it. If you get serious about NL, I'd also suggest reading Ciaffone/Reuben's NL book.

Good luck...

[RPatterson]

Just stop bluffing so much.

[rsliu]

If I understand you correctly, there's two things I can do at this point.

1. Purposely play some hands incorrectly to decrease predictability.
2. Stop bluffing and tighten up to exploit my loose table image and get paid off when my flops hit.

Which is a better strategy? Sometimes over the course of a session I try to follow Brunson's advice of switching gears, playing a bunch of hands tight and then a bunch loose. However once the flop is on the board I think my betting is too predictable.

[jtr]

If your opponents are bad enough, as I take it they are in a home game of no great seriousness, then you can afford to be a big wuss nut-peddler. Just wait for relative monsters. Folding a lot will give you time for extra trips to the kitchen to get beer for everyone else.

I don't think there's any need for sophisticated gear-switching against this sort of opposition -- it's wasted on them. The only reason you'd do it is I suppose to practice for doing it in a tougher game, but that seems flawed also as people's responses to your play will be very different when you eventually move to that tougher game.

[rsliu]

I've tried doing this a few times (beer runs included), but there are two problems. First, my opponents are not so bad as to give me free cards to hit my draws. Generally they understand concepts like pot odds and will bet to drive out the draw. Second, and more important, they tend to recognize when I've been playing tight over the course of a couple of hours. As a result, when I hit the flop hard, a lot of times I'm not getting the action I want. What should I do?

BTW, as far as I can tell, the general strategy of my opponents is to bet big when they hit the flop hard and hope someone calls (of course, when someone does call, that person usually also hit the flop hard, so its an even money proposition). As a result, no one is really up in our home game in the long run.

[GimmeDaWatch]

Well, you seem to be saying a couple different things here. 1)you semi-bluff and raise so often that you cant get anyone to fold and 2)when you hit a flop hard you get no action b/c your friends think you're a tighty McWhitey. Personally, when I play home games, the people I play with are so loose and bad that I dont do much besides wait for hands and bet and then win some money. However, the strategies dont exist in a vacuum, and some of how you play should be based on how you feel you're being perceived by the rest of the players. If you're always getting called b/c people know you bet/raise your draws or are trying to buy the pot alot, only bet your strong hands and have them pay you off. If you're getting too much respect, start to buy pots when you have position and its checked to you. Semi-bluffing against loose opponents is pointless, and aggressive play becomes more and more correct the tighter your opponents are towards you. As for the set question, if there are no draws, and its a rag type flop, I might check it hoping someone bets and get in a check-raise on the turn. If its a flop that looks like it could have hit someone well (A, K, or Q hi) I will often bet out hoping to get raised or called down by top pair which is drawing nearly dead. If there are obvious draws out there, I will nearly always play it fast.

[Big O]

[ QUOTE ]
Just stop bluffing so much.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would have to agree. You have to be able to change your game when your opponents do the same. If the bluffs dont work, then stop for a while and when you have the monster and everyone folds show your hand to let them know you are betting the nuts.

You can't follow a book to a tee. You have to be able to adjust your game to what the other players are doing. If you are able to do this, you will be a few steps away from being a great player.

Good luck

[EvanJC]

"If I understand you correctly, there's two things I can do at this point.

1. Purposely play some hands incorrectly to decrease predictability."

When you figure out the "correct" way to play any hand in any situation, could you let me know? That'd sure make things alot easier. Anyways, in a loose/passive home game, just sit around and wait for the nuts. I doubt your opponents are folding hands like TPTK. Make your money there.

[bunky9590]

Man I wish I had the problem of people always calling/raising me!!!!!

Here's what you do. don't play a lot of hands up front and play a lot of in Late position, and limp a whole bunch. Still raise the big pairs but go the opposite route of super system and lull them to sleep, then when you do get them involved smack them with a big raise on the turn. Bet your monsters and when they raise, set them in. Don't wait for monsters but you will have to control the pot size if you have people always looking you up. Thats a whole lot easier to do when you are in position.

If they are the type to try to get aggressive with you after that, check your monsters right back at them with position on the flop, let them bet the turn and call. Let them bet the river and raise.

They adjusted to your game now you better adjust to their game.

You know when you're getting good when you can figure out what your table image is on multi tables and play the hands according to what the other players think of you on that table.

For example If I'm running good, and showing down winners, My flop bets take down more pots than normal. But On another table if I have AK and whiff and I'm not showing down winners, I may have to check a whiffed board because Its likely I'll get played back at. Make sense????

[JohnG]

[ QUOTE ]
I try to play tight aggressive- if I'm going to play a hand, I'll raise preflop unless I have suited connectors or pockets.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they are playing back at you because they have caught on to fact you have a certain range of hands to raise and have likely missed the flop, then this is what you need to change. Occasionaly raise on the smaller pairs and suited connector hands when it's suitable to do so. That way they cannot put you on a missed flop when it comes 478.