T6s - Large pot

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I've been thinking about this hand all day, sort of as a result of the "Ed Miller has it wrong" thread (an opinion with which I strongly diagree).

It's early morning, and I'm playing 1/2 on Paradise before heading to work. I'm in MP3 and get T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I'm moving the cursor to check the *fold* box when I realize that UTG, UTG+2 & MP2 are all posting. My mindset switches from "fold this cheese" to "look at all that dead money."

UTG checks, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 checks, MP1 limps, MP2 checks, I call, CO folds, Button(has told me he's a 2+2 lurker)raises, SB folds, BB, posters & limpers all call. 7 see the flop for 14 sb.

Flop: Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

5 checks, I bet

OK, stop right there.

Question 1: Why am I betting this piece of cheese into a preflop raiser?

Question 2: Have I learned something from Ed's book or am I just a maniac?

I'll post the rest of the hand and my thoughts later. Flame away.

[tolbiny]

Question 1: Why am I betting this piece of cheese into a preflop raiser?

Because the preflop raiser also should have oticed that there are posters in the pot and should be raiseing with a wide range of hands. If he raises now it will clear out the field, and if he doesnt it narrows his holdings somewhat.

Question 2: Have I learned something from Ed's book or am I just a maniac?
i dont know what to say but if my hand was any better i would raise preflop myself

[BigEndian]

I fold PF, not worth it imo.

On the flop, that's pretty much the only way to play it. I would hope that the PF raisor has AA and raises. I really get disappointed with the PF raisor doesn't oblige my wishes and calls here.

Oh and:

A) you are going to see the turn with this much $$ in the middle, so your bet is to improve your chances of winning.

B) I hope you played it this way before Ed's book came out (post flop I mean).

- Jim

[cnfuzzd]

I think the line to take is that this pot is now BIG, and you want to do everything to increase your chances of winning. Folding is out, as you would not win. I presume. Checking to the pf raiser would allow him to bet, and then everyone would call for one SB, as they tend to do. Plus, checking does nothing to give you a strategic advantage. Betting out, however, allows the 2+2 to raise, as he or she almost certainly will given that that is what we tend to do, and you are now forcing the field to call 2 cold. Yeah, they are probably still getting odds, but perhaps you will fold out some, and clean up some outs, although i cant off hand think what they might be /images/graemlins/grin.gif. Also, and i think more importantly, assuming you dont spike trips or two pair, but do pick up your draw, there is always the chance that it will be checked to you, and assuming the 2+2 hasnt improved either, you may get that vital free card to make your hand.

peace

john nickle

[Joe Tall]

If you want a better shot a the dead money you should raise preflop if you can clear the field. If not, fold preflop.

Now that you have seen the flop in a monster pot, betting bottom pair and a double runner seems to be the best line to get you this pot.

If you don't pick up more on the turn check/fold.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

The reason I bet is that I expect the button to raise. If I check and he bets, everybody calls. I want him to help clear the field.

You're right about the preflop raise. Had that one person not put money in voluntarily, I probably would have raised without a second thought.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Well, the button did not oblige. He just called as did 4 others. The turn was a brick (from my perspective). It was checked to me, I checked, the button bet and got two callers and I folded.

It turned out that the button had the one hand that made calling on the flop correct - QQ.

[Trix]

I fold preflop. If 3 any2 players limped to you, would you then limp it ?
It doesnt help with an aggr players behind either.

Flop bet is good.

If he raise you will clean outs. 6J+,J9,T8,97,Jd+Xd will prolly fold for two cold.