Failed semi bluff with str draw poorly played ?

I limp in cuttoff after early limper with Qs-10s.

Button raises, bb calls flop is k-j-4 one spade.

Checked to button who bets. Button just sat down so I know nothing about the way he plays. Everyone folds to me, I call. Turn is 6 of hearts. I check button bets I semibluff raise he calls. River is 2 of dimonds. I bluff river and get called by K-Q. I lost a lot of money on this hand.

These types of moves have worked rarely in the past but always seem to fail. I could have saved two big bets if I played the hand more passivly. Should I have played this hand different?

You have a garden-variety draw and you are out of position. You have a player raising before the flop after two others have limped in. The flop can easily connect with many preflop raising hands he figures to have. I don't like your check-raise semi-bluff move on the expensive street at all. What are you representing given the blank on the turn? The other problem with your play is that you will be committed to betting the river if your opponent calls and a blank arrives since you have no hand to show down.

Thanks for the response. I was wondering what the definition of a garden variety draw is?

You can bet the flop here with your open-ender. You're hoping that the pre-flop raiser has a medium pocket pair like TT and will fold. (Note that if he has AQ he's not going anywhere.) If the button raises, you would normally call against an unknown player. If the player is known to be aggressive, you could try three-betting the flop and then betting out on the turn -- maybe it will get him to fold if he has, say AJ, JT, or 99. But you've got to think there's a fairly good chance he has a king, in which case bluffing or semibluffing will be futile. If you are going to make a move it should be on the flop -- bet out and then three-bet, or perhaps just checkraise (especially if there are callers between the preflop raiser and you).


The way you played the hand would have been okay if you had held J9s and the flop was T84 with a 6 on the turn. Now if you check-call the flop and check-raise the turn, there are a lot of hands the preflop raiser could have which he will want to fold (e.g. AK, AQ, AJ).

If you are going to semi-bluff CR do it on the flop and see if you can get a free card on the turn. I would definitely put the guy on a strong made hand given his pre-flop actions - AK, KQ, KJ or even a pair of J's for a set. When you don't know much, if anything, about a new player you have to assume they are playing well until otherwise noted. This is a case where you should have played close to the vest and worked on getting to the river as cheaply as possible to see if you would make your hand. You have that your only outs are with your straight - spiking a pair is a dead hand.


That being the case, semi-bluff check raising is probably not the play here to begin with. I would usually only pull this on the flop if I have overcards or at least a couple ways to make a winning hand. Doing this when your only hope is ~12-1 is not a good play.

9 or less outs would be my definition.

A garden variety draw is an ordinary open-end straight draw or flush draw without any other outs like having overcards or pairs. Here is a garden variety draw: You have Qh-Th and the flop is: Kd-Jc-2s. You have an open-end straight draw pure and simple.


But suppose you have the same hand with the following flops:


1. Jc-9d-3s, you have a straight draw but a queen gives you top pair which may also win so you have a straight draw with 3 overcard outs.


2. Qd-Js-9c, you have a straight draw but a queen gives you trips and a ten gives you two pair. You have 13 outs to improve your hand. Against only one opponent these additional outs may all be live.


3. Ks-9h-2h, you have a flush draw plus a gutshot straight draw with any jack so you have 12 outs.


4. 7h-5h-2s, gives you not just a flush draw but two overcards which, if paired, may win giving you top pair. You have 15 outs to a flush or top pair by the river.


These examples are all better than having an ordinary draw because you have additional outs.

Anyone reason to raise pre-flop in this situation? lets say the early limper is a prop who will play a little loose pre-flop but nothing huge (group 5 hands maybe)You can buy the button and maybe get the button or small blind to fold a hand than dominates you...Jim, Mason, Bueller...anyone?

The failure to raise pre-flop was the first mistake of the hand. I'd do it with QTo as well. It would be best to see the flop heads-up and win with a flop bet.

When you don't know much, if anything, about a new player you have to assume they are playing well until otherwise noted.


Why would you do this? Most players play badly.

that's a good point - however, it can be a costly one to make. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying lay down and play dead - but it's probably not the best move to try to run all over someone as soon as they step into the game without knowing a thing about them.