15-30 shorthanded vs. Ray Zollar

I was playing 15-30 at the bellagio this weekend when this hand came up.


We were 4 handed (In the middle of the afternoon, the game was just starting). I usually don't mind (in fact, in LA, I LOVE) shorthanded games, but here, I was a little concerned because I was outclasses.


Ray Zollar (sp?) raised UTG. Some of you likely know Ray. For others, let me simply say this. When Sklansky was asked on this forum to list some of the best Vegas 30-60 regulars, Ray is one of the handful that Sklansky mentioned. So, he's good.


Ray raised UTG, and I 3-bet on the button (i.e. next to act) w/ KQ. Both blinds fold.


I'm not enthused with how I played this hand, but I'm really more curious about how Ray played it. He is an expert, so I don't really question it, but it is so much different that I'd play, that I'm wondering if I'm way off.


Flop comes AJ8, rainbow, with one spade. Ray checks, and calls my bet.


Turn is 6c, completing the rainbow. We both check (I don't like my check).


River pairs the 8. Ray bets, and I call.


Ray shows 76s, his bottom pair beating my nut-no pair.


While I'm probably asking many of you to bite your tongues and to not flame me, I'm really curious about Ray's flop call, and river bet to some extent. I'd think he'd check/call with that hand on the river, but fold on the flop. Am I way off?


Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks


Josh

you both played it very well.


he has a little something on the flop mixed with the strong likeliness that he was waiting to go for a checkraise on the turn and put you to the test with that A out there.


then again, given that he doesnt know you, youre young, and you 3 bet preflop his flop call had a lot against it (an ace is a very easy card for you to have, even shorthanded).


one thing you shouldve considered wouldve been to check the flop and then raise the turn. in fact perhaps you did consider it.

I never considered checking the flop. I should have, though, you are 100% right.


Josh

better than check-check--I would have folded on the river.

While you could (and should now and then in a shorthanded setting) do all kinds of fancy things like the check the flop and then raise the turn etc, the most straight-forward way of playing this hand is to bet the flop and then bet the turn again when he just calls the flop. You then showdown your nut no pair if the river is a blank.


As for Ray's call, obviously he was counting on the possibility of stealing on the river if you dogged it on the turn. That's the only reason he called the flop. I suppose the back-up reason was to have you check the turn and then he could value bet if he paired on the turn or river. I highly doubt that he was calling the flop with a view to running a pure bluff checkraise on the turn.

BTW, his call on the flop would be a lot better if the flop was AJ7 with one spade and he held 8s6s.

I agree with skp that the most straightforward way is the best way to play this (bet the flop, bet the turn).


You three bet PF, bet the flop and get called. That could mean; 1) he hit the flop, 2) he missed the flop but he doesn't want to establish a pattern where he lays down on the flop after getting 3-bet PF in a shorthanded game. If he lays down everytime he misses then you could simply 3-bet every hand and bet the flop and collect the pot the majority of the time when he misses and then shut down when he calls.


If you bet the turn and he called the flop because of (1) then he calls again or raises. If he called the flop because of (2) he folds. With four bets in the pot, you can surely risk one on the turn in the hopes of (2). Plus you may suck out on him if he calls the turn with just a pair of jacks.


Regards,


Paul Talbot

I would have bet both the flop and turn. Even if you are behind on the turn, you likely have 10 outs (4 T's, 3 K's, 3 Q's) to win the pot on the river.


Betting gut-shots with two overcards should be a routine play in short-handed play. I think you can do it here as well despite the Ace.


I think his river bet was a "bluff" in the sense that he thought you could beat his hand and hoped you would lay it down due to the Ace-high flop.