Connectors -- suited or not

[PokerNeal]

.. are not fit to play in a NLH tourney. (I am excluding A-K, K-Q) 90% of the time you don't make your hand on the flop with these cards. Someone else who made or has a high pair will push chips in. If you stay in and don't complete your hand you just bled your stack. I have the same thing to say about a draw hand where the odds clearly show you that you don't make them 2/3rds of the time. So in a long tourney you lose with these hands more than make it with them unless you were lucky to get free cards (in which case you are winning a small pot anyway!). Having played hundreds of tourneys I feel that in NLH tourneys that 90% of the time you win with high pair high kicker. Ring game strategies (that involve connectors and draw hands) are best left for the final table and not the other parts of the tourney. Comments???

[fnord_too]

I like suited connectors in good position when the blinds are small. I especially like them in a rebuy (durring the rebuy period of course). They are goods hands to double up with, and usually only cost me the price of a blind to play.

Late in a tourney they are not bad steal hands. If a short stack goes all in after your initial raise, you are rarely a huge underdog. In fact, middle suited connectors are a favorite against small pairs, and about 40% against two overcards (6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif beats A/images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif ~ 42% of the time). Even against the mighty AA you win 22-23% of the time.

Certainly, if you can't get away from a draw they can cost you a lot of money, but I would not call them unfit to play, you just need the right situation.

[betgo]

Have you been reading TJ Cloutier?

It depends on the situation. Early in the tournament with deep money and multiway pots, they are great. If you can be a second (or more) limper or the second caller of a raise, you can play them. On another thread, FossilMan recommended them as good hand to steal blinds with.

To win a big pot, you usually need a big hand. It is easier to make a big hand with 87s than AJ.

Late in a tournament at a full table with good players, you mostly want to play TT or AQ or better, but suited connectors have their place.

[PokerNeal]

The two responses so far are saying that you can play suited connectors tactically (low bets, from the blinds, when action is slow, etc. etc.) -- and I wholeheartedly agree. My point is you can't play them like you would in a limit hold'em game. In a NLH you better have made most of your hand on the flop... rarely can you chase a hand beyond the flop which is what is required of a suited connector...

[Potowame]

The only time I will play them late in a trny is in steal position, I will raise 3x-4x bb. I never limp with them with large blinds for the reason you have desribed.

#1. If you limp you are more than likley going to have to chase a good flop.

#2. If you hit real hard on the flop you more than likley will not get payed off.

For those two reasons later in a trny, I will only raise with Suited Con. to steal the blinds and give deception to my hand if called. But I will more often just, fold them preflop when the blinds hit 50/100 mark.

[codewarrior]

I find them playable (and profitable) for a raise, late in a tournement with position. Especially, if you have played very few hands. Late meaning the bubble or later. In the early rounds, I think you're just pissing away chips you might wish you had when you get that monster, or wish you had when you go all-in against a bigger stack knowing you have the best hand.

My $.03 (adjusted for inflation)

[betgo]

Against weak players early in a low buyin tournament where you have multiway pots and people will pay off your big hands, they are great.

I saw this posting on another forum where this guy had won a seat in the WSOP, and he decided to play his regular game, which was small pairs and suited connectors.

So he call a raise 4xBB T800 by the UTG with 77. The flop comes J73 rainbow. He is thrilled that he is able go get more and more in the pot with raises and reraises. On the turn they go allin and his opponent turns over JJ, and our hero is bounced out of the tournament.

The moral is that people at the WSOP aren't going to put all their chips in without a very strong hand, and playing speculative hands doesn't work as well at that level.

[RPatterson]

[ QUOTE ]
The moral is that people at the WSOP aren't going to put all their chips in without a very strong hand, and playing speculative hands doesn't work as well at that level.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are there two different WSOP's? Because the one I know about has alot of bad play on day 1.

[Potowame]

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
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The moral is that people at the WSOP aren't going to put all their chips in without a very strong hand, and playing speculative hands doesn't work as well at that level.


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Are there two different WSOP's? Because the one I know about has alot of bad play on day 1.




[/ QUOTE ]


I watched a hand Tues, where a player called a all-in with
7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif after, he raised with it. Odds could have been there to do so, but he still put a large portion of chips at risk.

[RPatterson]

[/ QUOTE ]


I watched a hand Tues, where a player called a all-in with
7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif after, he raised with it. Odds could have been there to do so, but he still put a large portion of chips at risk.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I think satellite qualifiers are as stupid as every other lucky tournament winner.