Playing TPTK...

[tabish]

Hi everybody,

I'm new to these forums... I've been playing hold'em seriously for about nine or ten months now - like many others, I got interested after the broadcast of the 2003 WSOP. I've been doing pretty poorly. I guess I'm down several hundred bucks, but I'm definitely improving. The guys I play with regularly consider me a solid player, but my poker discipline isn't good. I'll play solid poker for a few hours, then get bored and throw away my profits and then some on a few ill-advised bluffs or chasing bad draws. I'm sure you all know how it is.

But, in any case, I've become much more serious about the game. Part of that is registering here. So, let's get down to it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Here's a hand I've been thinking about the past day or two. I know TPTK is a pretty vulnerable hand in NL, and I've definitely lost my fair share of large pots with it. But it's often a winning hand... what do you think of my play here?

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (10 handed)

Hero ($21.25)
UTG ($45.50)
MP1 ($42.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls $0.50, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $1.50, MP1 calls $1.50, CO folds.

Flop: ($7.25) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="red">MP1 bets $3.50</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $10</font>, UTG calls $10, MP1 calls $6.50.

Turn: ($37.25) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $9.25 (all-in)</font>, UTG calls $9.25, MP1 calls $9.25.

River: ($65) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP1 checks.

Final Pot: $65

[TerraUbrett]

I'll start by asking what books you've read? If you haven't read any, that's a good place to start.

"I know TPTK is a pretty vulnerable hand in NL, and I've definitely lost my fair share of large pots with it."

AQos late position vulenerable in NL? I think that is the wrong approach,it is vulnerable in certain hands, not in the whole game of NL. As far as you the way you played the hand, I have see no flaw in your playing here. It was correct to raise pre-flop, and re-raise on the flop. Not sure why UTG &amp; MP1 call your $9 bet on the turn just to check the river. Had you not been out of money, a bet on the river probably wins you the pot. They might even call a bet on the river with a marginal hand. You'd be surpriaed what players will call large sums of cash with (middle pair) at the $25nl rooms. Get a book, or ten and keep playing.

[tabish]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll start by asking what books you've read? If you haven't read any, that's a good place to start.

[/ QUOTE ]
So far I've got Lee Jones' _Winning Low Limit Hold'em_ and S&amp;M's _Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players_. Working my way through them right now, and I think I might pick up an NL book or two soon.

And maybe I should rephrase my question. I'm not unhappy with my play here - it was pretty straightforward. It's just that I find myself very frequently contesting large pots while holding TPTK. Some I win, some I lose, but I think improving my play with TPTK would make a big difference to the bottom line. So I guess I'm looking for pointers - when is it a vulnerable hand, what might make me want to fold, that sort of thing. Often when I'm done with a TPTK hand, I find myself very unsure of how much I should have been betting.

[SpiderMnkE]

from my experience on line... when I have tptk.. if I'm betting and they are just calling my bets... then I'm usually good.

If I bet and get raised.. I could be in trouble.. but not always.

This one is interesting because he bets out.. calls a raise and keeps calling.

I really have to assume you are ahead on this flop. You will be most times. If you lost... you probably got sucked out on or were against a set.

With your short stack there is almost no way you aren't ending up all in.

I think you played this hand fine... and lost to A9 or K9... maybe 33.. but I think 33 reraises you all in on the flop.

Looks good though!

[JohnG]

[ QUOTE ]
So far I've got Lee Jones' _Winning Low Limit Hold'em_ and S&amp;M's _Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players_. Working my way through them right now

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither book will help you for no limit.

Get the 2 Ciaffone books.

[tabish]

Yep, I'm aware that those two books aren't good for no-limit. But I play a fair bit of limit, too, and I thought I'd start reading up there, especially since those two limit books are well regarded.

And yeah, I did get sucked out on this hand. Otherwise it'd be quite unlikely that I'd post about it. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I don't understand the check on the river by UTG... maybe a failed attempt at a checkraise? But holding on to those cards as long as he did, who knows?

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG shows 2c As (two pair, aces and twos).
MP1 shows 4d Ad (one pair, aces).
Hero shows Qc Ah (one pair, aces).
Outcome: UTG wins $65. </font>

I'm happy with my play here. But TPTK always makes me nervous. A lot of money seems to exchange hands when I've got it - and I think there's a lot I could do to make my losses with it smaller.

[JohnG]

As a relative beginner at limit. Rather than read the advanced holdem book after Lee Jones, I think you'd be better off reading the complete book of holdem by Gary Carson, and then Ed Millers book.

Also, one of the 2 Ciaffone books, 'Improve your poker', is relevant to both No limit and limit holdem.