A hand to talk about!

I played this 15 Holdem hand against a young aggressive opponent yesterday at Bellagio..


I was in the SB with Ac,Kc. My opponent open raised from mid position. Folded to me, I three bet. (Hosh thought that I should have just call). The BB folded and we took the flop heads up. The flop came 9h,8c,5d. I bet and my opponent called. On the turn came the 4c making the board 9h,8c,5d,4c. I bet, my opponent raised and I thought seriously about reraising but called. The 7d came on the river. I checked and my opponent bet. I called. My opponent showed me the 3c,6c. With a big grin on his face he dragged the pot. About an hour later we talked about the hand. He asked me how I could call the turn raise and the River bet. I lied and said because "I put you on absolutley nothing." He said yeah maybe on the turn but what about the river, you only had Ace high? I then asked him if he had not made anything would he have bet the river. He said probably. Did I misplay this hand?


Vince

Seems like you played it okay.

"Seems like you played it okay. "


Is that a 7 +/- 2? Could it have been played better? Besides winning of course.


Vince

I don't know if Hosh is very wrong. I think he is slightly wrong as from the sb and with Ak, Vince would probably prefer to be heads-up and with the preflop initiative. But if, for some reason, Vince knows that the bb is going to fold (perhaps he looks utterly disinterested in the hand, perhaps he last caled a raise from cell phones were Star Trek material only etc), then I think that Vince may in fact have a good thing going postflop by smoothcalling preflop i.e. the ability to represent hands other than a big pair or Ak, the ability to make more money when he hits etc.

Vince, you said this was "against a young aggressive opponent". Personally, I think he will be a young, aggressive and homeless opponent if he keeps betting funky gutshots vs. the mighty Vince!. Clearly, given his propensity to open raise with any two cards, you must 3 bet this joker with any "decent" hand. I AM curious as to what you put him on when you called the turn raise? Obviously you put him on the straight at the river when you checked it, so why call there? Babe

Babe,


The call on the river was a no brainer. I, unlike Sklansky, sometimes make futile river calls if for no other reason than to gain information. Costly? O.K. but it's something I do. On the turn I was indeed fearful that he may have flopped a set but had to call the raise given that I had 2 over cards and the nut flush draw. Once I called the turn I was doomed to call the river when seemingly blank hit or maybe not but I did anyway.


Vince

Vince,


I would have done the same; BTW, "probably" means "Yes!"


John

Does play the blind different then some of you. A mistake to call no. Often I will 3 bet the hand and hardly can wait to get the 5 bet in. Now back to what I said I can win three ways the way I play it. First if I hit a hand he is going to get check raised on the flop or the turn. When low flop comes out I can either check raise or bet. I am hoping he has A with a weaker kicker as I have the A and K tied up. T. This give me more options. Often situations like this are caused by reraising. The opponent by getting 3 bet gets into a fight or flight mode. Often they will fight causing you to get into situations like these. The more agressive they are the more they will get into the fight mode and make playes on the turn and the river. Such as check raising when they thing you are weak. This is what happened in this situation. I cannot remember the whole situation but I do remember it. I must have some history on the player like this and know how he would react to being 3 bet on the flop.

Oh yah I started to recall this hand. The kid was a fast player who I have played with before. I was refering to the river. Yes you should have called the river. I would have called with the Aks as well on the river. Once you put in that much money on the turn and their are draws out there I rarely will fold the river. There is just to much money in the pot. One thing about 3 betting is to know how the opponent will react. I often play 3 betters very agressivily. I make most players that habitually 3 bet pay dearly for their foolishness. I have specific strategies that are built around 3 bet players and the additional money in the pot. Sharp players will not let you continually 3 bet without starting to punish you. They know when some of your cards are tied up because they have the cards in their hands and punish you with them. Now that I have given out some information let me get you to think. How are you going to play 99 against a 3 bet player before the flop and Aq after the flop.

"I often play 3 betters very agressivily. "


I think you missed something here. I was the one that three bet here not the kid. I will add that I correctly three bet. If you use your "3 bettor strategies" on a player that makes correct 3 bets then you may find thet your are the one "paying dearly" and not the 3 bettor. Now if I were 3Bet Brett or Bob Morgan, well that's another story.


Vince

I am talking about the players that two and 3 bet everytime they enter the pot. Now how can they have a pair every time. Now way. Most often they have no pair and shall pay. As you know I monitor this site often Vince. I hear the advocates of the two and three bets. Sorry sometimes they are right but often they are wrong. I never heard of top strategy investing the most to get out the least. I think you should try investing the least to get out the most. I know of a great asian player who plays in vegas that has this strategy. I have talked to some high limit players and they say that he is a mystery man. If they would only think they would see his strategy and see why he is successful. He is not in there pounding and pounding reducing his odds. He pounds when he must but also calls when he must. He gauges what to do against each player. He made a quarter million in 3 month from 30-60 up and then he has made enough to play 400-800 on his own money. He did not do this by pounding and reducing the number of players and the odds that he was getting. He did this by conserving money and getting good investment returns.