Any pyschology experts figure this out?

[Lawrence Ng]

Over the past 8 years of my poker life, I have found that I have had incredible, somewhat strange sleeping patterns after taking a losing session.

While I am playing the game, losing does not phase me out. I look back at how I played the hand and then if I realize I played it the best I could have then I happy and if I did not then I just remind myself to play better.

For example, last night last I took my biggest single session lost of 33 BB on a great 30-60 game. After the last blow hand, I cashed out feeling down, but ultimately telling myself that I'll be back tommorow and the cards will be random again. I've done this many many times. Heck, I was even in a good enough of a mood to ask this cute pit boss out for a meal as she was getting off her shift. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

So all in all I take these losses and beatings very well and try not to focus too hard on them.

But then sleep time comes. Now here's my nightmares begin. I can't sleep straight throughout the night. I keep woken up and there's all these constant poker scenarios running through my head. And because I am constantly being woken up in intervals I have wound up oversleeping due to the lack of sleep. Then when I do wake up, I am fine and back to my old self in about 15 minutes.

Usually this only happens the night of the loss. The size of the loss has nothing to do with it. I could lose only 1 BB or 50 BB and the same thing will happen to me. Occasionlly though I may go through another consecutive crazed sleep night like this, but it's rare. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Ulysses]

That happens to me sometimes when someone new is sleeping in my bed. You should have taken the pit boss home and then came back home for a relaxing sleep.

[Lawrence Ng]

El Diablo Senor,

I would've loved to do that, but when she said $500, I said I'd rather go through the poker nightmares. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Noo Yawk]

Hi Lawrence,

The difference is you blamed yourself for the loss and like a pro you reviewed your hands in your head to try and correct your game.

Most lose sleep AND steam away another 50BB's.

[onegymrat]

Hi Lawrence,

Since your story sounds so awfully familiar, I will take a stab at this. I don't think that we can do much about this. Since we take this game sooo seriously, it tends to affect how we look at life. Some have looked at consumer purchases by means of big bets, some look at other daily decisions in terms of odds, you get the picture. And since it affects every aspect of our lives, including relationships and what we think about, why wouldn't it affect our sleep?

Since dreams are so difficult to interpret, it's hard to say what yours are really about. I do, however, dream about something that usually bothers/anticipates/excites/etc. me. For example, when I was a kid looking forward to going back to school (don't ask why), I would dream about it. Before a Tahoe ski trip, I would dream about it. When my ex-girlfriend and I broke up and I was sad, I would dream about her. Nowadays, it's poker. The other night, I dreamed I hit a badbeat jackpot with quad deuces, and then I realized that the two deuces on the board with both spades. I had been thinking about the jackpot all week and how great it would be to have that money. Somehow, it manifested itself.

On the other hand, again, I being in the same position as you (although you play much higher limits /images/graemlins/ooo.gif), have had difficulties dealing with the fluctuations of the game this summer, and went through some added stress. I had to learn to look at the lighter side of poker, take a few days off, treat it a bit more of a hobby than a side income, and my sleep and stress levels became better. My game also came back along with a little good luck.

I think that your "problems" are as common as a guy who owns his own business, and sales are down. Learn to deal with it with a leveled head. We certainly are not going to quit this wonderful game /images/graemlins/crazy.gif, so we might as well learn to deal with the craziness correctly. How to do it correctly is yet to be determined. Good luck.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
El Diablo Senor,

I would've loved to do that, but when she said $500, I said I'd rather go through the poker nightmares. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, are you being serious here or just kidding around? I've heard of a chip ho, but never a pit boss ho!

[Lawrence Ng]

LOL Senor,

Of course I was kidding. We just went out for a bite ( of food that is!!!).

It was nice too because it got my mind off the big loss.

We have lots of errr..specialty houses here in Vancouver for such..err...needs should they arise. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[paland]

Ambien works for me.

[LetsRock]

Haave you tried writing down the stuff hands that you're replaying and noting on paper that what you did right (or wrong) in the hand?

Sometimes putting stuff on paper (silicon chips) will really let your mind let it go.

[J.A.Sucker]

I think you internalize things too much. You need to step back and realize that losing is part of winning. I never lose sleep over losing anymore. Life's too short, and poker is just a game. You seem to get easily agitated by losing or by having some idiot see your hand. Instead of always making a victim out of yourself, you need to realize that these bumps are all just part of life. Try deep breathing. Also, if you're really riled up, then do some sort of physical activity to clear your head. I like just strolling around at night or taking a brief run.

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, if you're really riled up, then do some sort of physical activity to clear your head.

[/ QUOTE ]

I masturbate at the poker table. No one notices and I can keep playing. I can easily do this because my penis is so small.

Just one of many useful hints that Zeno gives out for free. You are lucky - usually I would charge for such masterful advice.

-Zeno

[J.A.Sucker]

You rule. That is all.

[pilamsolo]

You should play more online. That way you can play 3 games and still have porn going in the little corner of the screen you have left.

[Cazz]

My guess:

Your loss of sleep is because your subconcious mind recognizes a disconnect. You played in a juicy game and you are a good player (at least in your head), yet you lost. Your mind is trying to either resolve these incongruous element into something logical (like "sometimes they just get lucky") or is trying alert you to the fact that things aren't normal.

I've figured things out in my sleep before. For example, I realized that someone lied to me. I believed her at the time, but the way she acted and something she had previously said rattled around in my head until I figured it out.

[Lawrence Ng]

Zeno, I blow..err I mean I bow to you. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Lawrence Ng]

Hi J.A.,

Thanks for this sound advice and although I have been telling myself that over years, it's nice to have someone still reinforce this kind of thinking in my head.

[M50Paul]

Persoanlly I prefer jumping out a window. It's a one time event but you get done with it. Recommend that the window be at least 5 stories up to be effecticve

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't sleep straight throughout the night. I keep woken up and there's all these constant poker scenarios running through my head.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are the common scenarios that run through your head? What is the 'worst' one that bothers you most?

It's usually either ego (losing regardless of monetary loss) or issues with losing money, ie...in adequate bankroll. These are the prime 2, imo.

b

[Lawrence Ng]

Hi Bernie,

First off congratulations on your win at the Muckleshoot. I read your post in the Gossip section. I hope your making that your office now. It's a wonderful casino and I can't wait to go down there again since it's been over 2 years since I last went. Great 20-40 there btw.

Well, I had a strange dream 2 nights ago. I just went home after dropping over $1300 in a wonderful 10-20 game. Perhaps one of the best games ever I have played both on a financial level and a social level. The whole table was zoned in and no one was getting up even to piss. But alas, the poker gods that night azz-jammed me good.

That night I went to bed and yet again the nightmares came up. This time I had a dream I was in the WSOP championship game. Somehow I am shortstacked and leave the table to go outside in some weird forest and come back and wind up with like $300,000 in chips. I move tables and look down at my hand and see pocket aces. But it's not cards I am seeing - it's straws. The aces are labeled on the straws.

So some guy in early position open raises for 15000 and comes to me and i raise it to 40,000. Now this guy who I play with in a live game cold calls on the button for 40,000. Anyways, flop comes all clubs. Check to me, I for some dumb reason go all-in for the rest of my chips. Button calls really fast and shows KQ clubs and wins. Then I get knocked out of the WSOP big one.

LOL strange dreams... /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Lawrence Ng]

Oops, to answer your questions:

1. I use to have an ego at the table. But not anymore. I have mastered the art of letting that go on the table. Losing hurts still that I do admit, but I will never play with my ego because it blinds my focus and judgement.

2. Bankroll is not an issue either. I have a full time job that pays well and my bankroll is very very strong enough that I could handle 100 BB losses a night for 2 weeks and it wouldn't phase me.

I think it has more to do with the players themselves and how they are at the table. I deal with clients/customers all day long on my job. I am constantly dealing with people and having to understand them. So I think this might have something to do with it... ??

[bernie]

Ive found many times when i dreamt like this about something, it was more about myself than other players. After all, it's your reaction to them, not theirs.

Could be lots of things. Could be a combination of stuff. To find out, you have to really be brutally honest with yourself. Isolate out the part that bothers you. Break it down. Which can be very tough to do on one's own. Many times it's stuff that isn't as big a deal as we think it is anyways. Yet it looks huge. If it really bothers you, i'd spend the $100 and ask a mental health person to help pick through stuff and find out. Finding a good one is invaluable. Understanding your game in this way is also priceless, imo. Knowing yourself better than any of your opponents ever could.

Speaking of dreams, I've had some odd dreams. One that comes to mind is when i was playing cards with chocolate chip cookies being the cards. The chips were the pips. I remember everyone was pissed at a guy because he kept eating his 'hand'. I can't remember if i was winning or not.

b

[pc in NM]

[ QUOTE ]
I use to have an ego at the table. But not anymore. I have mastered the art of letting that go on the table. Losing hurts still that I do admit, but I will never play with my ego because it blinds my focus and judgement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my $0.02 worth of psychological analysis....

What you describe as "letting that (ego) go", I'd describe as "controlling your behavior (in spite of your emotions)". And, I consider that to be a good thing, as you aren't going on tilt, and you apparently continue to play your game well.

But you aren't "letting go" of your emotions (be they anger, anxiety, discouragement, etc.). They are apparently still churning below the conscious level (dinner with the pit boss babe is a "diversion", I think you said), and when you go to sleep, those emotions are fueling your dreams, and, in turn, disrupting your sleep.

Drerams can be valuable in many ways, as clues to what is "really" going on (I liked the suggestion about writing down the dreamed hands, though they might just be nonsense....), or even just as a "release". But, sleep disruption can be costly.

So, there have been many valuable suggestions in this forum about managing one's emotions, and some of those might be worthy to pursue as the "next step"....

If none of this rings true, keep the $0.02 - I'll write it off as "pro bono"....