(Pocket) King(s) For a Day

[Azhrarn]

My two pocket kings hands from my first session of the day.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed). Early hand at a table, no reads on any of the villians.

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 caps</font>, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (16.33 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Obviously, I'm unhappy with this flop. I'm not sure what to do with this hand, so I decide to see what the turn action looks like.

Turn: (10.16 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, Button calls $5 (All-In), Hero...

Ew. What's my action here? Clear fold, maybe fold, crying call?


Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed). No read on my opponent.

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB folds, MP3 calls.

Flop: (5.33 SB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 calls.

Turn: (4.66 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.66 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises...</font>

Pretty straightforward until the river. This is one of the first times I've used the raise-a-suspected-counterfeited-two-pair play, and I was wondering what others think about it.

Any replies appreciated.

[xerostar]

Wondering why in the second hand, you don't raise the turn.

[beginner]

I am by far not an expert, but my opinion...

1st hand... I fold after the two raises on the turn because one of them likely has an ace (specially judging by UTG+1's pre-flop raise and cap)

2nd hand... I re-raise turn because MP3 is probably holding a Q and thinking you are on the flush draw

[Azhrarn]

If I knew my opponent was at all aggressive, I would raise the turn. But the average Party 3/6 player is somewhat passive. In general, I think I'm behind more often than not against an unknown player who bets like that.

Also, a certain percentage of the time that I am ahead, my opponent will be pushing a weak hand, and he may fold to a second show of aggression (or not, if he's really bad.)

[BucHawk]

You obviously have never heard of one of the most important scientific disoveries of all time. The symmetry of those poket kings creates magnetic forces which causes the aces remaining in the deck to shift to the top ensuring one comes on the flop.

I can't believe you didn't know that. What a noob!

[joker122]

In hand 1, either bet, CR, or check fold the flop. What does checking and calling accomplish? Turn play: crying calls usually entail one bet on the river, not 2 cold on the turn with 2 outs. Fold the turn.

Hand 2:
[ QUOTE ]

Pretty straightforward until the river. This is one of the first times I've used the raise-a-suspected-counterfeited-two-pair play, and I was wondering what others think about it.


[/ QUOTE ]

I actually like this play, and have used it with some success a few times before. However, I think I'd just put him back in his place on the turn and raise there.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]

If I knew my opponent was at all aggressive, I would raise the turn. But the average Party 3/6 player is somewhat passive. In general, I think I'm behind more often than not against an unknown player who bets like that.

Also, a certain percentage of the time that I am ahead, my opponent will be pushing a weak hand, and he may fold to a second show of aggression (or not, if he's really bad.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're failing to consider one important detail: you raised on the button with 1 LP limper. Your opponent is not giving you much respect for a hand and most likely thinks you are in a semi-steal mode. With that said, I think a turn raise is probably best.

[lu_hawk]

Hand 1 is a pretty easy fold I think. CO got taken along for the ride in a capped preflop and now he comes alive on the turn. One pair is unlikely to win here and a pair of K's is even less likely to win.

I like the river on hand 2. You are only behind to a set now.

[Johnny_Cash_Advance]

First hand I'd definitely fold. Where did CO come from with that raise? You're almost definitely against a set there IMO and even if your not you probably lost.

Second hand, I raise the turn.

[MrHorace]

Hand 1
I fold! My bet is that CO had AT. The raising on the turn just solidifies this thought.
Hand 2
After looking at this more closely, and reading Johnny's post, I agree that raising the turn was probably a better play. Although I do think you played it okay.

[smartalecc5]

A few days ago, my KK went 0/5 in a day.

I was on such tilt after the last one.

I would bet too little (I'm playing on an NL table) and I would get too many callers and I'd bet 1/3 my stack and get 1 or 2 callers.

So the flop comes ATT. I check, guy bets - next person calls. I am so on tilt now I raise all in hoping both of them are bluffing (WTF WAS I THINKING?) and they both call. One flips over the T and the other the Ace.

[Azhrarn]

Hand 1: UTG +1 called the turn. River was a blank, check, bet, call. CO shows KQo /images/graemlins/shocked.gif, button had 85 down for a pair of eights, and UTG+1 takes it down with pocket nines. /images/graemlins/confused.gif I just wanted to make sure others thought it was an easy fold on the turn.

Hand 2: MP3 3-bets, I call and get shown Q4. I had the right idea, but bad timing, I guess.

[Azhrarn]

That is a good point, thank you. I'm a little paranoid about overplaying top pair and overpairs in the Party 3/6, as I'm continually amazed by the passivity of many of the players, especially against pre-flop raisers.

[Azhrarn]

[ QUOTE ]
In hand 1, either bet, CR, or check fold the flop. What does checking and calling accomplish? Turn play: crying calls usually entail one bet on the river, not 2 cold on the turn with 2 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I checkcalled because I was being indecisive. I was willing to call UTG+1 down, because I thought it more likely he had a pocket pair, but I wanted to see what the others did. Many players will take a card off in a big pot with anything, so the flop calls may or may not have meant something. So I was planning to call the turn if the CO folded (I was assuming the short-stacked button might call with anything.)

Unfortunately, this strategy depended on the CO playing in a straightforward manner, which turned out to be a mistake. In retrospect, I think leading the flop was a better idea. The turn action might have been completely different then. Oh well. Thanks for the advice.

[Joe Tall]

UTG+1 bets, CO raises, Button calls $5 (All-In), Hero... FOLDS.

Peace,
Joe Tall