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prayformojo

08-25-2004, 12:32 PM

Continuing a theme from yesterday, I am still trying to build up strong sets into bigger pots and looking for the right place to slowplay on the flop. One way or another, have at this flop call.

Button is loose, and fairly passive postflop.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero caps, Button calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, MP1 folds, Hero caps, Button calls.

River: (18.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 26.75 BB

sthief09

08-25-2004, 12:33 PM

if your read is right, when he raises the river, I don't think he can possibly have anything but quad 9s. he has to be thinking you have AA or KK after all that turn action. I think very rarely you'll see 77, but KK is all but out of the question. what else can he have?

everything up until your river 3-bet looks good to me.

easypete

08-25-2004, 01:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Continuing a theme from yesterday, I am still trying to build up strong sets into bigger pots and looking for the right place to slowplay on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like this?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG (LPP) calls, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, Hero raises, BB (LAP) calls, UTG (LPP) calls, UTG+1 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
Hero bets, LAP raises, LPP calls, UTG+1 folds, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, LAP bets, LPP calls, Button calls, Hero raises, LAP 3-bets, LPP caps $16 (All-In), Button calls, Hero calls, LAP calls.

River: (25 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, LAP calls, Button folds.

Final Pot: 27 BB
Main Pot: 25 BB, between Hero, LAP and LPP. > Pot won by Hero (25 BB).
Pot 2: 2 BB, between Hero and LAP. > Pot won by Hero (2 BB).

Results in white below: 
LAP shows Kd 8d (two pair, kings and eights).
LPP shows Js 3d (one pair, threes).
Hero shows Kh Ks (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 27 BB.

easypete

08-25-2004, 01:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
everything up until your river 3-bet looks good to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's wrong with that? The chances of that are so small that a 3-bet here is +EV, isn't it?

mikeyvegas

08-25-2004, 01:12 PM

Ummm, hello??? Haven't you seen Rounders? It's obvious that opponent has A-9s for the underboat! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

But seriously, since hero has top boat I think it's hard not to cap here on the river. From the action in the hand, opponent could have 99, KK, and overplayed A-K. I don't see alot of party 2-4 players 3-betting pf with 9's.

sthief09

08-25-2004, 01:13 PM

logic > numbers

sthief09

08-25-2004, 01:14 PM

he said his opponent is passive. a passive opponent wouldn't raise KK on a flop with an A. there's no question about that.

with no read, I'd keep raising, but if he is passive, he has to have 99.

easypete

08-25-2004, 01:18 PM

AK?

sthief09

08-25-2004, 01:33 PM

I wouldn't have even raised the river with AK. how can you expect a passive player to do it?

the only hand I, personally, would've played like this is KK, but I don't give a passive player credit for raising the flop with KK.

you'll see AK or 77 sometimes, but the majority of the time you'll see 99. you also have to think that a passive player isn't going to cap your 3-bet unless he beats you. so when you're ahead you gain 1 BB by raising, and when you're behind you lose 2 BB. you need to be ahead 2/3 of the time for 3-betting to be right. against a passive player, you'll see 99 much more than 33% of the time.

again, this is all assuming he is a passive player. with no read I'd 3-bet.

sthief09

08-25-2004, 01:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see alot of party 2-4 players 3-betting pf with 9's.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah this is the part that's confusing me. he did say "passive postflop" though, so I figured he was capable of 3-betting with 99. if he's relatively passive all around AK makes the most sense, but he overplayed the sh!t out of it.

sthief09

08-25-2004, 01:42 PM

I want to see how wrong I am

Pil Sung Do

08-25-2004, 01:53 PM

I look at it and I'm seeing AK.

prayformojo

08-25-2004, 03:10 PM

Sorry, had to have a break to go to the gym.

In your defence, Sthief, I should have said that I have a specific note on SB, after over 400 hands, that he always slowplays sets on the flop. For that reason, I thought it far less likely that he had pocket 9's than any other reasonable hand. I didn't include this info because I didn't expect the river to cause much controversy.

As for passivity, his statistics are pretty clear on that, but I guess this was an aberration. Results:

Hero shows Ah Ac (full house, aces full of nines).
Button shows Kc Ks (full house, kings full of nines).
Outcome: Hero wins 26.75 BB.

sthief09

08-25-2004, 03:12 PM

FWIW I think he played it perfectly until the river cap.

and with the knowledge that he slowplays sets, I think you played it perfectly too.