$20+2 Losing streak. Did I do anything wrong in these 3 final hands? [Archive]

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AA suited

08-24-2004, 11:36 PM

I was multi-tabling, so no read on anyone. Please critique. THX! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

1) Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t1790)
MP (t1916)
HERO (t1214)
SB (t1000)
BB (t2080)

Preflop: HERO is Button with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG raises to t600, MP folds, HERO raises to t1214 (All-In), SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls t614.

Flop: (t2878) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t2878) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2878) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t2878
Main Pot: t2878 (t2878), between UTG and HERO. > Pot won by UTG (t2878).

Results in white below: 
UTG shows As Jd (two pair, jacks and eights).
HERO shows Ts Ad (two pair, tens and eights).
Outcome: UTG wins t2878. 

2) Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed)

BB (t2400)
UTG (t3245)
Button (t1520)
HERO (t835)

Preflop: HERO is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG raises to t400, Button folds, HERO raises to t835 (All-In), BB folds, UTG calls t435.

Flop: (t1870) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t1870) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t1870) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1870
Main Pot: t1870 (t1870), between UTG and HERO. > Pot won by UTG (t1870).

Results in white below: 
UTG shows Qs Ks (flush, king high).
HERO shows As 7d (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: UTG wins t1870. 

3) Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (5 handed)

UTG (t2393)
MP (t935)
HERO (t850)
SB (t770)
BB (t3052)

Preflop: HERO is Button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, MP folds, HERO raises to t150, SB raises to t770 (All-In), BB folds, HERO calls t620.

Flop: (t1590) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t1590) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t1590) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1590
Main Pot: t1590 (t1590), between HERO and SB. > Pot won by SB (t1590).

Results in white below: 
SB shows 4h 4c (one pair, fours).
HERO shows Kc Ac (high card, ace).
Outcome: SB wins t1590.

durron597

08-25-2004, 12:20 AM

Yes, you're pushing over the top of UTG miniraises with crappy unsuited aces without enough chips to make the person who miniraised fold.

Hand 3 is fine, that's why no one wins them all.

AA suited

08-25-2004, 12:24 PM

#1: I have 4BB left, short stack has 3BB. with 5 people left, i saw myself as a short stack as well.

under these circumstances, I thought ATo as a good hand.

would you have followed the general instead? (general rule= stay tight unless you are down to 3BB or less. if you wouldnt call a raise at lvl 1 with these cards, then dont call now.)

#2: on the bubble and i'm the short stack. after putting in the small blind, i'm down to 3.5BB.

you wouldnt have gambled here and play into a raise? you would rather risk another orbit and hope for something better than A7o to call a raise with?

Marcotte

08-25-2004, 02:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
would you have followed the general instead? (general rule= stay tight unless you are down to 3BB or less. if you wouldnt call a raise at lvl 1 with these cards, then dont call now.)

[/ QUOTE ]

My general strategy (which come mostly from reading this board) is to play tight until I have <9-10 big blinds. Then I move to push/fold mode. With 4 or 5 players, I probably wouldn't push A7os until I was down to 8bb.

However, my standards go up quite a bit when I'm calling or reraising a raiser. When your stack is that low, you have little fold equity, and if you only call, you are pretty much pot committed with what is probably an inferior hand (remember, he was the original raiser). Even if you have a better hand, you are not a huge favorite

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=116018
pokenum -h kd qh - ac 7s
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kd Qh 724998 42.34 981453 57.32 5853 0.34 0.425
7s Ac 981453 57.32 724998 42.34 5853 0.34 0.575

Edit: You're even a smaller favorite when he's suited
Result
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=467511
pokenum -h ks qs - as 7d
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks Qs 766598 44.77 937495 54.75 8211 0.48 0.450
As 7d 937495 54.75 766598 44.77 8211 0.48 0.550

ddubois

08-25-2004, 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, you're pushing over the top of UTG miniraises with crappy unsuited aces without enough chips to make the person who miniraised fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've been wondering about this situation lately. Time for stop and go? If you know they absolutely can't fold to a re-raise, it seems like you would get alot more fold equity with both of hands #1 and #2 if you called and led out on the flop pushing.

That's the theory anyway, in practice, the last two times I tried a stop-n-go were dismal failures: 1) my A9o, flop came J high, and she called with AJ, 2) my K9o flop came 9-high and villan called with JJ.

After those two expereinces, I'm hesitant to keep trying the move.

The Student

08-25-2004, 05:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Time for stop and go?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand #3 is fine, but I don't like hand #2. Like others have said, you're not going to get the UTG to fold to your all-in, and you have to assume that you've got one overcard at most, and are quite likely in trouble facing a pair that might be bigger than a 7 (giving you only 3 outs), or a bigger ace. i'd say, give up your SB and either wait for better cards or just try a steal in a couple of hands when nobody else in betting ahead of you.

can someone tell me what a stop and go move is?
thanks,

ts-

Phishy McFish

08-25-2004, 05:08 PM

The last hand seems fine in my worthless opinion. The first hand you can get away from and wait for another shot, same with the 2nd...at least that's what I think.

ddubois

08-25-2004, 07:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
can someone tell me what a stop and go move is?

[/ QUOTE ]
Stop-n-go is a move wherein when some stealer is trying to take your blinds with a small raise, you merely call. Then, as you were in the blinds, you are first to act on the flop - here you "push and pray". If the flop missed your opponent you have some fold equity - usuallly much more fold equity than you would have gotten had you re-raised all-in pre-flop.

(Minutia: For some reason I do not understand, it is only considered a Stop-n-go if you push any flop. If you call and check out the flop and will only push if there is no ace or king present, that is not an "Official Stop-n-go", at least in some peoples' minds. I still see possible merit in this line, until someone explains to me why it's wrong.)

patrick dicaprio

08-25-2004, 07:15 PM

1. i dont think you did anything wrong here.

2.here is sketchier since you have a smaller stack and the UTG raise even if a bald steal is still not much of a dog to you. i would wait for a better spot or at least until i am first in. he is going to call no matter what you do so you can never have enough of an edge to make this worthwhile. it probably wouldnt have made a difference in your results though.

3.you cant really think you misplayed this can you??

Pat

bustedflush

08-25-2004, 07:24 PM

Hand 3 is the only good play. You're way too aggressive with weak unsuited Aces. Even suited those plays are bad. Be a little more patient, even when you're short-stacked and wait for better opportunities.