JJ or AQo?

[jah0550]

Harder hand to play in EP early in a SNG? JJ or AQo? I believe that JJ is probably the hardest hand to play PF, but what do you all think? When I say hard to play, I mean raise, limp, or fold. Any help/comments would be appreciated.

[Doubling12]

AQo is easy to play at 15/30 blinds and early position. Click fold...

JJ at this stage is fairly easy - limp, probably call a raise, and if you do not flop a set or overpair, move on.

Note that at 100/200 blinds (assuming it is shorthanded) these hands are very strong from any position, probably you would go allin with both.

[Officer Farva]

you don't have to fold aqo when the blinds are small in EP. I like the tight approach to SNGs, but AQ? Raise to 3BB, watch yourself pick up the blinds or flop top pair. If there's a reraise, then you can fold.

[unfrgvn]

[ QUOTE ]
you don't have to fold aqo when the blinds are small in EP. I like the tight approach to SNGs, but AQ? Raise to 3BB, watch yourself pick up the blinds or flop top pair. If there's a reraise, then you can fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm on board with this approach, certainly at the buy in's I play (10's and 20's). I think you are giving up too much if you routinly muck AQo. Plus I think at these levels people don't re-raise as much as they might at the higher buy in's. For that matter I would sometimes open with J's for a raise, at least at a tight table.

[ddubois]

What would you advocate with JJ at t100 blinds? I think I should have called and pushed on a J or lower flop? What about a Q-high flop?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="C00000">Hero (t1340)</font>
<font color="C00000">BB (t2845)</font>
UTG (t945)
MP (t555)
<font color="C00000">CO (t1340)</font>
Button (t975)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO raises to t225</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t1340 (All-In)</font>

[poboy]

They are both easy to play. AQ in ep at the beginning of a SNG is crap, so if I can't limp with it I don't play it. Same with JJ, though I might call a small raise with them. After that it's flop it or drop it.

[Doubling12]

I like this a lot - you will be out of position, so calling is not a great option. If you assume he would open raise 6-handed with 20% of possible hands, the only ones you are afraid of are QQ, KK, and AA, which are 1.36% of possible hands, or about a 1 in 15 chance. Otherwise, with your stack, you should be happy if he calls, and happy if he doesn't.

[Doubling12]

ewwww...early in a SNG, I try to play hands that provide *me* with the implied odds...picking up the blinds is not worth the risk. For &lt;T100 I would gladly call an EP raise with something speculative on the button and try to bust them when they make their 1 pair. When the blinds go up, and the bets relative to stack size are larger, its no longer profitable for a late position player to do this, making AQ and similar playable early.

[Greeksquared]

[ QUOTE ]
ewwww...early in a SNG, I try to play hands that provide *me* with the implied odds...picking up the blinds is not worth the risk. For &lt;T100 I would gladly call an EP raise with something speculative on the button and try to bust them when they make their 1 pair. When the blinds go up, and the bets relative to stack size are larger, its no longer profitable for a late position player to do this, making AQ and similar playable early.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think everyone needs to listen to what Doubling is saying. You want to play hands early on that will give you great implied odds(the ability to double up)..pocket pairs are usually the only cards that have this ability and maybe a suited connector.

When I see this question..whats harder to play JJ or AQo...the answer is simple..why make them hard to play in the first place. I like limping with JJ and only conitinuing if I have made a set. I even throw it away most of the time when under cards hit the flop. I think AQo is a terrible hand in EP during the first two levels but a great hand late on. KQ is ridiculously awful hand early and late. If you are thorwing away AJo in EP and raising AQo in the same position then I think you need to reconsider your strategy. Id much rather raise early position with crap like 75s so when I bet the flop and get reraised I can fold easily than lose with my TPTK. I usually want to win uncontested if I have TPTK...especially early on when I dont have any reads.

Make poker simple

[Phill S]

i know the reasons not too, but in early position im raising JJ everytime, TT is my cut off for EP limp only.

if your raised so be it, you have to play the player in these cases, but i know ill get late position callers with AQ, AJ, ATs and smaller pocket pairs.

JJ is a big hand, surely the best EV move here is to raise and cut the field, remember, its the fourth best hand.

Phill

[poboy]

I think you are overestimating the strength of JJ. 60% of the time an overcard will hit, and then your JJ is worthless. Raising PF will not eliminate hands like AK,KQ,AJ, or AQ . This is why I like to limp with them, if the flop is scary it's an easy laydown. If I raise than I feel more pot commited and it's tougher to muck em. Especially out of position JJ is just not that great a holding.

[patrick dicaprio]

if someone has raised before me AQ is easier. plus early on people make crazy plays to whihc i would much rather have JJ.

Pat

[adanthar]

Wow, and I thought *I* was weak tight early on.

I'll raise AQo to my typical 75 PF and make one half pot sized stab at it on any flop, unless I got too many callers or somebody obviously hit it (it came monotone and I don't have a draw.) I will not cold call it, except to a minimum raise.

I'll raise JJ to my typical 75 PF and take one half pot sized stab at it on any flop, unless I got too many callers or somebody obviously hit it (it came AKx). I will cold call a raise with it (and TT) but proceed onward only if I flop an overpair.

Either way, I'm losing 200 chips at most or getting about 300, assuming 2 callers. If I get called on a raggedy flop with AQ or on an Axx flop with JJ, I'm done with the hand.

Both JJ and AQ are profitable for me early.

[Phill S]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you are overestimating the strength of JJ. 60% of the time an overcard will hit, and then your JJ is worthless. Raising PF will not eliminate hands like AK,KQ,AJ, or AQ . This is why I like to limp with them, if the flop is scary it's an easy laydown. If I raise than I feel more pot commited and it's tougher to muck em. Especially out of position JJ is just not that great a holding.

[/ QUOTE ]

if your limping, just what do you want on the flop? JJA is pretty much the only secure flop you can see. your letting in the BB to make two pair with his 27o (incidentally i did this a week or two back to someone who limped with AA). if youve got overpair, your not secure. its basicly trips only.

60% of the time an overcard will come, so what, ill fold it in the same way i raise AK and fold if there is action and i dont hit a pair. but in the 40% of the time an overcard doesnt come i can be fairly secure ive got the best and ill play the flop hard.

Phill
edit: an AK makes a pair around 33% of the time on the flop. kind of puts that 40% into context.