What do you guys think?

Another question for the experts out there. I was playing next to a friend of mine who is a very good low- and middle-limit player. We were in one of those wonderful passive games where you can often get 6 or 7 way unraised action before the flop. People are limping in with all sorts of trash. He was sitting to my right in late position with like 5 callers already in and no raise. He folds his hand so I can see it muttering something about garbage. The hand was KJo.

Now, I know KJo does not play well multi-way, but isn't it too good to fold for one bet before the flop? If the flop comes either K or J high, don't you have the best hand? You will also probably have the odds to draw to a gutshot straight if it comes up. I think, although not ideal, it's still a decent situation to play that hand.


Anyway, the flop came with some trash 8-high, and he said, "See. I told you so." But I'm not convinced. What do you all think?


Thanks in advance,

ML

Fold or raise is the best thing for King Jackoff in this situation. Raise to take control of the hand and be prepared to dump to any significant action on the flop with and Ace (by significant I mean an ace flops and you are bet into) or a coordinated board. Fold and save yourself the headache of playing with a very marginal holding.


A lot of people limp with KQo (and rightfully so) and small pocket pairs. KJo is just ripe to become a second best hand so often that it is not worth playing that much. I much prefer 99's.


Lets say this happens, you play KJo and the following flop comes - K,2,7 rainbow and an earlier position bets into you? Now it is not so clear where you are. Lets say you raise and they call, now what? (naturally this depends on the player and the game you are in, assume you are playing a good player).


Heres where I raise usually with KJo, on the button and it is folded to me. Make it suited and I will play in mid position (with an occasional raise).


Regards,

JOE

"Raise or fold" is the most overused phrase in poker analysis. In this situation, if raising is + EV (relative to folding), I find it very hard to believe that calling is -EV (relative to folding). This one looks way more like a call or fold situation to me.

Back to the original question, I'd limp with it, but I'm usually glad when I miss the flop. That should tell me something.

Your point that if raising is +EV then calling is better than folding is faulty thinking. The KJ here is probably very close to even EV, dependent on how the other players play and their starting hand strategies. If you think it is positive than you need to raise to limit the field as much as possible and hopefully gain the button. If you think it is negative, you should fold.


BTW IMO that any hand worth playing is worth raiseng from the cutoff. Being last to act is that important.