River Decision?

[Levi King]

The table overall has been a little more agressive then the usual PP $15/30 game, but no specific reads on the players involved...

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (8 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (11 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero ???

[Turning Stone Pro]

muck. you're beat.

TSP

[Ulysses]

Call. If SB checkraises, you can muck. Usually he had either a flush draw or a worse Queen (or pair) than you, and usually he'll bet with the flush rather than checkraise. So you probably beat SB. UTG will often have an Ace or a flush, but the river club is a good card for him to bluff the 8.5% or so of the time you need him to do so to call. You're usually beat here, but good enough of the time to call.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
muck. you're beat.


[/ QUOTE ]

Great sophisticated analysis.

[Levi King]

Well, the reason it was interesting to me is because I did muck and I wasn't beat.

The SB called. The limp re-raiser turned over JJ and the SB turned over QTo. MHWHBG.

So, my questions:
A. how many folks side with Diablo and say I should have called?
B. If the SB wasn't still in it, is it an easy call?

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
B. If the SB wasn't still in it, is it an easy call?

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, SB being around is not much of a factor.

[Nightwish]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, the reason it was interesting to me is because I did muck and I wasn't beat.

The SB called. The limp re-raiser turned over JJ and the SB turned over QTo. MHWHBG.


[/ QUOTE ]
I was just about to post that river bettor is very likely to have a medium pocket pair, but you beat me to it. The reason for this is that he showed absolutely no resistance on the flop and turn. If he had something like AK or AQ, he would have check-raised the turn. An AJ would probably have bet out on the turn. The 3rd club on the river gives a medium pocket pair the perfect opportunity to try to knock you off your A or Q, and you fell for it.

My experience in the Party 15/30 is that most of the limp-reraises aren't being done with AA/KK/QQ. They're mostly done with JJ/TT/99/88/77 or hands like AK/AQ/AJ/KQ. The people doing it suffer from FPS and think that this adds a lot of deception value to their hands. I guess it sometimes works.

[James282]

People in these games will very often bluff scary river cards. The pot it so big that you must call even if there has been an overcaller, much less making the first call. Even if he has an A or a flush half of the time you are making a killing on this call. The SB sticking around almost always means a middling pair or top pair awful kicker - or a flush draw - but you'll know that if he check-raises. Definite call.
-James

[DcifrThs]

classic crazy party game imo.

the limp reraiser played the hand weird no matter WHAT he had. that doubt in and of itself causes you to be FORCED to call the river bet and fold to a sb checkraise and obviously fold to a 3 bet of the sb's c-r.

what goes on here is that it actually looks like a desperate attempt to win the pot from UTG+1...if he was solid about his hand why check the turn? unless its to c-r, but he didn't do that...you could fold if he checked you bet the sb called and he c-red the turn b/c that reeks of QQ/AA or AQ, all of which have you crushed. the way it played out though MANDATES a river call. not calling that river is a massive mistake b/c of the doubt and odd way it was played by all parties.

-Barron