2+2 Book Club: Theory of Poker (Official Revised Schedule)

[MEbenhoe]

I saw that a lot of people actually wanted to get started on this right away and so do I so giving a day to make sure everyone reads this I figure lets start it up on Wednesday. I also added more days in for discussion by including the days that we're reading the next section in as discussion days for the previous topic. So heres the Revised Schedule:

August 25-26: Read Chapters 1-4
August 27-29: Discussion on 2+2 of Chapters 1-4
August 28-29: Read Chapters 5-7
August 30- September 1: Discussion on 2+2 of Chapters 5-7
August 31-September 1: Read Chapters 8-10
September 2-4: Discussion on 2+2 of Chapters 8-10
September 3-4: Read Chapters 11-12
September 5-7: Discussion on 2+2 of Chapters 11-12
September 6-7: Read Chapters 13-15
September 8-9: Discussion on 2+2 of Chapters 13-15
September 9: Read Chapters 16-17
September 10-12: Discussion on 2+2 of Chapters 16-17
September 11-12: Read Chapters 18-20
September 13-15: Discussion on 2+2 of Chapters 18-20
September 14-15: Read Chapters 21-22
September 16-18: Discussion on 2+2 of Chapters 21-22
September 17-18: Read Chapters 23-25
September 19-20: Discussion on 2+2 of Chapters 23-25
September 21-22: Overall Wrap up Discussion

I hope this works out for everybody. Let me know what you all think.

[ZeeJustin]

This sounds like a great idea. I hope you get a lot of participation.

[faith]

been a few months since I opened top... It'll be nice to go through the book as a group activity. I look foward to reading about the concepts from other's points of view... Good idea for a group activity... I hope this gets good participation. Might be a precursor for future group readings/ discussions of other books.

[Leavenfish]

How does one sign up? Is this discussion to take place on this thread?

[MEbenhoe]

No need to sign up. Just read along with the schedule provided and each time there is a new discussion it will start on a new thread on this forum. For example on Friday look for a thread titled "Theory of Poker: Chapters 1-4 Discussion".

[easypete]

[ QUOTE ]
For example on Friday look for a thread titled "Theory of Poker: Chapters 1-4 Discussion".

[/ QUOTE ]

Should we have one thread for each chapter? I think one large thread may be a little too scattered.

[bygmesterf]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For example on Friday look for a thread titled "Theory of Poker: Chapters 1-4 Discussion".

[/ QUOTE ]

Should we have one thread for each chapter? I think one large thread may be a little too scattered.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about a Regular chat on IRC? Say #TOPbookclub at 10PM EST on EFnet.

[Smokey98]

IRC would be good, however some may not be able to make it to the discussion due to different schedules and timezones. However posting, also, is a slow process and takes time to get responces from induviduals. I'd be willign to do it via IRC or instand messenger or by post.

[uw_madtown]

I suggest a single post for each discussion (Chapters 1-4 being the first one), plus a designated IRC chat time. That way people who can't make the chat can still discuss -- perhaps a summary of the chat could be posted in the thread as well.

Obviously discussion in these threads could continue long past their designated dates, so in the end I don't think we need to worry too much about moving too fast.

- UW

[Smokey98]

Good point!

[Rudbaeck]

[ QUOTE ]
How about a Regular chat on IRC? Say #TOPbookclub at 10PM EST on EFnet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, 4am CET is a great time. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I'm all for doing it in the forum, and I think the aussies and kiwis will be on the european side in this too.

[easypete]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How about a Regular chat on IRC? Say #TOPbookclub at 10PM EST on EFnet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, 4am CET is a great time. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I'm all for doing it in the forum, and I think the aussies and kiwis will be on the european side in this too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm on the road all weekend and don't have IRC anyway. The thread is more of a permanant resource for this discussion and can be referenced in the future.

[Mars357]

I agree that keeping the discussion in the message boards is the best way to go...

I really think that trying to hold this kind of discussion in chat would be a mess. Keeping the discussion in the boards will keep it organized, searchable, and hopefully preserve the comments so that new people can read the sections then read the comments that were made on those sections.

I fear that by using chat, a lot of good information will be lost among the lines and lines of bickering and BS.

my .02 (.0117 in Canada....)

[AKQJ10]

Well, if people want to meet on IRC to discuss ToP, there's not really a good reason to discourage that. I would just hope that this IRC discussion wouldn't dilute the quality of the message board discussion. Perhaps someone could post a transcript so that those who can't/don't wish to take part in the IRC can still respond to points made there on the message board?

[MEbenhoe]

Just a reminder to anyone who hasnt started, its time to get reading today. Hope you all enjoy it.

[CrazyEvan]

I've been browsing this site for about 2 years now, and have about a dozen poker books (TOP included, naturally), but never had something I wanted to say bad enough untill now...This is the best concept for a thread that I've ever seen. Alot of people read the greatest poker book ever written over the period of a month and periodically discuss our thoughts on the previous chapters. Awesome. keep up the good work.

[Sarge85]

I hate to be devils advocate here - but this idea has come up a few times before - and unfortuately it intially gains alot of steam - but then seems to falter.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bring down the enthusiasm - in fact I really hope this goes strong, and I'll be definately participating. Me and JasonHoldem tried to start something similar a while back, but for whatever reason - it fell flat. JasonHoldem actually set up a separate fourm for the books we wanted to discuss, and broke it out by chapter. http://pokerodyssey.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/index.php

So I won't just bring up negatives - but try to offer some solutions. Here is why I think the idea crashed:

1) We had no leader - someone driving discussion -
2) We weren't sure what to discuss - there were no thought out questions
3) I'm not sure we had enough "membership" that was "qualified" to answer questions that could come up. - (See point 1) I think we needed an Ed Miller, Clarkmiester, Dynasty, etc type to challenge us.
4) and finally - I think we needed assignments - something to bring back to the group and discuss - whether it's a hand history, another 2+2 thread - just something that made you think more about the topic at hand.

Anyway - I hope this gets off the ground, and develops into other Book Clubs for the other books out there.

Count me In...

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
http://pokerodyssey.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/index.php


[/ QUOTE ]

Good points. I should have considered that this had been tried before and searched for it, although i don't think this forum's search engine would be particularly helpful.

At any rate, i don't want to reinvent the wheel, so i'd like to incorporate the chapter threads on this other forum into whatever we do here. Perhaps link those and excerpt them to get discussion started over here? Or does anyone think it would be preferable to just have our conversations over there?

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://pokerodyssey.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/index.php


[/ QUOTE ]

Good points. I should have considered that this had been tried before and searched for it, although i don't think this forum's search engine would be particularly helpful.

At any rate, i don't want to reinvent the wheel, so i'd like to incorporate the chapter threads on this other forum into whatever we do here. Perhaps link those and excerpt them to get discussion started over here? Or does anyone think it would be preferable to just have our conversations over there?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think having the conversations here rather than on another site will strenghten them. Doing this allows people such as hopefully DS, MM, Ed Miller, Clarkmeister, Dynasty, etc. to simply drop in on our discussions rather than going to another site.

[Sarge85]

That's all just semantics

Truthfully, it really won't matter where we have it.

Personally I think the sucess or failure of the Book Club would hinge on the first point that I made.

Finding a leader that will be able to drive the dicussion, ask tough questions, and essentially provide direction for the group.

The crappy part is, that takes alot of time and thought to put it together. Whether we post the dicussions, here, there, IRC, whatever - it won't matter much if we're all - for the lack of a better cliche - a bunch of wall flowers waiting for someone to start up the discussion and asking questions.

Maybe you've got some already - if you do great, if not, I would try picking the brains of the more respected posters here - Maybe they won't lead discussions, but might have some good topics for us to discuss.

Anyway, I guess my point is - it sounds like were putting the "Cart in front of the horse" trying to find out where we're going to discuss, instead of having a better idea of what were going to discuss when we get there.

(This post has a snotty tone, and it's not supposed to - sorry /images/graemlins/frown.gif - I like you would like to see this succeed, but I'm seeing the same mistakes being made)

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[jasonHoldEm]

I agree with the reasons sarge listed for why our attempt failed. Everyone involved in something like this will be operating at a different skill level, motivation level, and free time level...it's difficult to find a middle ground if you want everyone to stay with the group.

My best advice would be to create a few small groups, organized by the amount of time each person can devote (time/motivation level) and to a lesser extent their skill level. Having a leader would be a plus to organize things and drive the discussion.

Breaking the groups into smaller parts would allow everyone to progress through the book at a rate that is (close) to their ideal rather than trying to hit a middle ground that few will be happy with.

Anyways, I'm rambling....

You are welcome to use the Odyssey boards...I can do some housekeeping with some of the older posts or the forum layout (or whatever) just let me know. My internet access will be somewhat limited until after September 1st, but after that I'll participate as well wherever you guys end up. Send me a PM if you want me to change anything at the Odyssey Forums.

Peace,
J

[Smokey98]

I'm not sure when you originally tried doing this, but now that poker has gained the amount of attention that it has wouldn't it have a better chance of being successful.

[Sarge85]

It was only a few months ago... (Like June)


Me and Jason both agree that this group can get this off the ground. - It seems to have more of a ground swell than before.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[sethypooh21]

Sweet. I just started re-reading ToP on my own, and am REALLY looking forward to this now.

[littledave]

I'd just like to plead for a little slower pace. I've always been a lurker here but mentioned that this thread will pull me out and enjoy the discussion. However...

I don't have the book - how many participants had to order the book? This was just mentioned for the first time yesterday, wasn't it? Well I ran out to B&N but it was not in stock, so had to order it online. Even paying extra for quick ship, it will not be here until Friday. So I'm behind already...

I looked at how many pages in the book vs the schedule, and there are some 276 pages in about 24 chapters. The online schedule here says the first 4 chapters will be covered in only 4 days, including discussion. Whew!

So I'm behind before I begin. I'm just wondering if the pace can be a little more deliberate, please. Thanks.

[MEbenhoe]

I think it'll be a test. We'll see how the first section goes and if it needs to be slowed down from there we will.

[AKQJ10]

Exactly. Also, i'm hoping that some of the topics will take on a life of their own, so that for example if there's a lot of discussion about one particular chapter then we can slow things down. Those who want to read ahead can do so. I'm in chapter 21 at the moment, but i'm also reviewing the first 4 for discussion material.

[As Zehn]

I will be out of town and unable to participate till 8/27 late PM. Am looking forward to catching up at that point. Hopefully, everyone will remain enthusiastic.

[MEbenhoe]

I've already started writing the opening discussion post. I think I've hopefully come up with some ideas that will really make people think about the first few chapters. I'm trying to throw in a challenging question for each chapter as well.

[ihaterivers]

Sounds like a great idea considering I just started reading TOP for the first time. I will definitely be along for the ride.

[theghost]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it'll be a test. We'll see how the first section goes and if it needs to be slowed down from there we will.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's only 30pp, 2+2 books go quick too because of all the white space/ hand examples. Maybe 1.5 hrs tops to read and absorb chp 1-4.

[MEbenhoe]

Thats what I thought but a couple people were asking for extra time.

[jwvdcw]

great idea. I'll participate.

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
I've already started writing the opening discussion post. I think I've hopefully come up with some ideas that will really make people think about the first few chapters. I'm trying to throw in a challenging question for each chapter as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great work! I'm definitely going to be a part of this if its well-run.